f10 rod bearing failure

[TopEnd]

Originally Posted by serhat06

bearing failures are hard to indemnify by oil analysis, cuz if its ok i wont show and evidence but ones it touches the crankshaft true the oil film it will start and go bad in very short time (less then a oil change period) , my personal experience based on s52 and 4.8is, and f10 m5 engine just listen to it carefully in a closed room like a garage, every 1000-2000 miles.

Personally, if I send a sample to to blackstone after every oil change, and after the 5th sample there is an increase in lead........RED FLAG! S52 and the 4.8is(which wasnt a S motor to begin with) are nooo where near as close to the S65 and S85 when it come to rod bearing failures.

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by TopEnd

Personally, if I send a sample to to blackstone after every oil change, and after the 5th sample there is an increase in lead........RED FLAG! S52 and the 4.8is(which wasnt a S motor to begin with) are nooo where near as close to the S65 and S85 when it come to rod bearing failures.

Newer owned one but read many bad things, i guess best way to own a M IS TO REPLACE ROD BEARINGS EVERY 40-50k miles. Im wondering if there are any good aftermarket bearings for s63tu. I know acl racing makes some realy good ones for subaru ect. Also i was thinking of upgrating arp bolts but couldnt find the product on their catalogue.

[bmwdinan5]

Why do you think the rod bearings have to be replaced every 40-50k?

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Why do you think the rod bearings have to be replaced every 40-50k?

because they shave. first i just tought it was only me but diging online a little bit you see more victims of this, i seen some bad ones on russian forums too.

[bmwdinan5]

Is there a correlation that can be made?

[RDD56MCAR]

Originally Posted by serhat06

just bought mine 10 days ago has 39400 milesand is 2013. i did change the oil today i realized extreme metal flakes in oil. im scared AF. any one else spun bearing experience? No noise or any symptoms on the car. how much is a extended warranty if i want to buy one. is it possible after the factory warranty expires to extended? ill post a video tonight.

serhat06 - DO NOT I repeat DO NOT just replace the bearings. The Motor is completely contaminated with the Metal Flakes you found when you changed the oil. The motor needs to be taken out of the car and completely disassembled, thoroughly cleaned (and this includes any Engine Oil Coolers and associated piping or hoses), and check for and repair any damage that has occurred.

Very sorry to hear this has happened your Car.

[bmwdinan5]

What is the best way to determine if you are having rod bearing failures?

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by RDD56MCAR

serhat06 - DO NOT I repeat DO NOT just replace the bearings. The Motor is completely contaminated with the Metal Flakes you found when you changed the oil. The motor needs to be taken out of the car and completely disassembled, thoroughly cleaned (and this includes any Engine Oil Coolers and associated piping or hoses), and check for and repair any damage that has occurred.

Very sorry to hear this has happened your Car.

By replacing bearing you torn down %90 of lubracation system like: oil coolers hoses oil pump lower upper oil pan. For me this is just a try at this point if things go bad ill just order a long block or buy one used if luck to find one. But i belive it will be all good. All v10s or 8s get them replaced same way.

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

What is the best way to determine if you are having rod bearing failures?

Best way looking at them visually, if you are okay with 3-7 mechanic hours.
Easiest way listening to it or check your oil.

[serhat06]

My new parts should be in tomorrow ill input more info once is done.

[RDD56MCAR]

Originally Posted by serhat06

By replacing bearing you torn down %90 of lubracation system like: oil coolers hoses oil pump lower upper oil pan. For me this is just a try at this point if things go bad ill just order a long block or buy one used if luck to find one. But i belive it will be all good. All v10s or 8s get them replaced same way.

serhat06 - You have not torn down 90% of the Motor by leaving the Motor in the Car. You are still unable to clean the Oil Passages in the Block and the Heads and the interior surfaces of the Block, Heads, Pistons, Rods, and Crankshaft (to say nothing of accurately checking the condition of the Crankshaft Rod and Main Bearing surfaces). The ONLY way this can be done is by doing what I said above.

serhat06 - you need to have MORE RESPECT for the cleanliness and attention to detail required for a successful "Motor Rebuild", which is what you are doing.

You will only prolong the agony by trying to short cut what I have said above. Your Mechanic will love you because you will just spend MUCH more money in the long run with him on Parts and Labor to ultimately fix the Motor.

If your Mechanic is telling you "it is not necessary to remove the Motor" you are in the wrong place and you should take your car from him immediately and run as fast as you can to a reputable Shop.

YOU CAN NOT remove the contamination from the Motor in the car when your bearings have already failed and sent the debris thru the motor. You will be lucky if you get around the block after spending all the time and money repairing the motor the way you want to.

I speak from a life time of experience as an addicted "CAR GUY" who has built and raced Cars, Boats, and Jet Skis, all of which have produced a Minimum of a 180 BHP per Liter. I am an old man now and trying to pass along what I have learned and spent a lot of wasted money on during my life.

I hope for the best in your efforts to repair your Car.

[Igor_M5]

Originally Posted by serhat06

My new parts should be in tomorrow ill input more info once is done.

Any updates? What did the bearings cost you? Did you only replace the ones that were worn?

I'm experiencing severe rattling/ticking, but not a bend rod knock/tick. Gunna start with bearings first, 6K miles since a new motor was installed, by BMW btw.

Gotta confirm the issue 100% before I open up a can of whoop ass.

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by Igor_M5

Any updates? What did the bearings cost you? Did you only replace the ones that were worn?

I'm experiencing severe rattling/ticking, but not a bend rod knock/tick. Gunna start with bearings first, 6K miles since a new motor was installed, by BMW btw.

Gotta confirm the issue 100% before I open up a can of whoop ass.

It cost me arround 600 since you do the jop replace all of them. 600 including lover and uper pan gasket 16 connecting bolts 16 bearing shells, and a oil filter. How is that possible with 6k on only? Are you out of warranty?

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by RDD56MCAR

serhat06 - You have not torn down 90% of the Motor by leaving the Motor in the Car. You are still unable to clean the Oil Passages in the Block and the Heads and the interior surfaces of the Block, Heads, Pistons, Rods, and Crankshaft (to say nothing of accurately checking the condition of the Crankshaft Rod and Main Bearing surfaces). The ONLY way this can be done is by doing what I said above.

serhat06 - you need to have MORE RESPECT for the cleanliness and attention to detail required for a successful "Motor Rebuild", which is what you are doing.

You will only prolong the agony by trying to short cut what I have said above. Your Mechanic will love you because you will just spend MUCH more money in the long run with him on Parts and Labor to ultimately fix the Motor.

If your Mechanic is telling you "it is not necessary to remove the Motor" you are in the wrong place and you should take your car from him immediately and run as fast as you can to a reputable Shop.

YOU CAN NOT remove the contamination from the Motor in the car when your bearings have already failed and sent the debris thru the motor. You will be lucky if you get around the block after spending all the time and money repairing the motor the way you want to.

I speak from a life time of experience as an addicted "CAR GUY" who has built and raced Cars, Boats, and Jet Skis, all of which have produced a Minimum of a 180 BHP per Liter. I am an old man now and trying to pass along what I have learned and spent a lot of wasted money on during my life.

I hope for the best in your efforts to repair your Car.

You are right the best way to do it! But i am doing everything my self! And im depressed after spending so much money on a car, and it gives me bearing noise! At this point i dont give a damn... if it blows ill just buy onother used engine end get rid of this car for good. I allways use to be amg guy, but after buying an m5 for my cousing i was inspired to buy one. Love the car interior, sound handling etc, but so many bearing fails makes this car a piece of shitt in my eyes.

[M5 London]

Do you know if your car was ever tracked ?

I can see rod bearing failure due to excessive G forces whilst cornering causing some form of oil starvation.

and/or

Poor cold start running procedure (too much load / revs) during cold start.

I am not saying you have done this but perhaps a previous owner ?

Perhaps a batch of poorly manufactured oil pumps.

Unlikely, but oil pump failure or oil pump performing poorly perhaps...or even debris in the oil pan that has caused some oil starvation due to blocking the oil pick up head.

Incorrect engine oil grade / spec.....

Actually I suppose the list goes on.

I come from an E39 M5 back ground where there have been quite a few rod bearing failures documented. I changed them out at circa 119K Miles. I have seen them fail on pristine 40K examples but also no problems on 300K examples.

Its quite an interesting topic to be honest, albeit costly if it goes wrong !

[phil_]

The E60 M5 has a known rod bearing issue. The E9X M3 which shares the M5 engine design has it too.

You were pushing your luck on rod bearings over 80,000km / 50,000 miles. The high-reving nature of the v10 was blamed at the time. I wonder if this will be an issue with the F10 M5.

This should probably be mandatory maintenance for all out of warranty M5's.

I did it on my previous E60 M5 and it was $2500 cdn at the BMW dealer. The rod bearing were shot (96,000km).

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by M5 London

Do you know if your car was ever tracked ?

I can see rod bearing failure due to excessive G forces whilst cornering causing some form of oil starvation.

and/or

Poor cold start running procedure (too much load / revs) during cold start.

I am not saying you have done this but perhaps a previous owner ?

Perhaps a batch of poorly manufactured oil pumps.

Unlikely, but oil pump failure or oil pump performing poorly perhaps...or even debris in the oil pan that has caused some oil starvation due to blocking the oil pick up head.

Incorrect engine oil grade / spec.....

Actually I suppose the list goes on.

I come from an E39 M5 back ground where there have been quite a few rod bearing failures documented. I changed them out at circa 119K Miles. I have seen them fail on pristine 40K examples but also no problems on 300K examples.

Its quite an interesting topic to be honest, albeit costly if it goes wrong !

i dont have much info about prev owner but i am suspected of 2 points.
1. late oil change.
2. oil level sensor, after the work done i filled up the oil and measured couple of times after at least 25 mins (for the oil to get op temp. ) and it was ok next day warning pupped up required 1+qt add. it might be normal due all oil lines and oil cooler was removed and i know if the oil isn't hot enough it wont open the thermostat to let the oil flow in oil cooler. but i ll replace the sensor regardless in next oil change.

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by phil_

The E60 M5 has a known rod bearing issue. The E9X M3 which shares the M5 engine design has it too.

You were pushing your luck on rod bearings over 80,000km / 50,000 miles. The high-reving nature of the v10 was blamed at the time. I wonder if this will be an issue with the F10 M5.

This should probably be mandatory maintenance for all out of warranty M5's.

I did it on my previous E60 M5 and it was $2500 cdn at the BMW dealer. The rod bearing were shot (96,000km).

im unsure at the moment ho many people experienced this. but i hope it wont be a common problem like the e90s or v10s. any one know any think about lubrication upgrade? like updated oil pump or????

[Igor_M5]

Originally Posted by serhat06

It cost me arround 600 since you do the jop replace all of them. 600 including lover and uper pan gasket 16 connecting bolts 16 bearing shells, and a oil filter. How is that possible with 6k on only? Are you out of warranty?

Did you perform the job yourself? Holy fuck is the oil pan housing hard to remove ! I wanted to drop it to check for my signs of rattle and after getting the whole thing loose, it looks like the only option left is to drop the whole subframe?!

Gunna try to break the rack from the steering shaft and unbolt the engine mounts, then try to lower the car with the motor pinched on stands, see if I can make a bigger gap between the block and cross member, ughh.

Warranty got flagged, car is over due on lease return since dec. 26, rattle came out of nowhere about 3 weeks prior to that. About to yolo and return it as is.

[TrevorM3]

why were you flagged?

[serhat06]

Originally Posted by Igor_M5

Did you perform the job yourself? Holy fuck is the oil pan housing hard to remove ! I wanted to drop it to check for my signs of rattle and after getting the whole thing loose, it looks like the only option left is to drop the whole subframe?!

Gunna try to break the rack from the steering shaft and unbolt the engine mounts, then try to lower the car with the motor pinched on stands, see if I can make a bigger gap between the block and cross member, ughh.

Warranty got flagged, car is over due on lease return since dec. 26, rattle came out of nowhere about 3 weeks prior to that. About to yolo and return it as is.

remove any part that connects suspention to subframe,
remove stabil. arm,
remove oil cooler and lines.
remove both side fenderliners
remove both side water coolers ( helps to remove lower front suspention arm bolt)
remove steering rack from subframe you can leave the steering oil lines on but it is easier if you remove whole steering rack.
secure engine with a engine jack or use that tool you put on fenders. engine lift points are one in front easy to locate second behind rear left engine computer, remove all engine harrness end engine computer from its bracket so it doest brake when you lift up the engine. no need to remove cooling lines.
remove bolts between radiator support and subframe
remove engine mound bolts
remove all subframe bolts
remove harness on lower oil pan ( oil pressure or temp sensor and oil level sensor,
remove lower oil pan,
remove oil pump
remove upper oil pan (also tranmission bolts holding together)
you need to remove the sponge between tranmission and oil pan in order to access rear bolts.

use inpa for torque specs.
use loctite for upper oil pan bolts the ones stay inside the oil pan ( i used on all of them)
when you remove connecting rod caps you need to buy new bolts.

good luck.
but dkg clutch makes rattle noise too. make you you remove all bottom covers and listen to it from lower end. connecting rod noise will make complete different noise then anything else. also check your oil for metal flakes.

the total job takes about 10-15 hours no lift including replacement of each bearing shells.

[TopEnd]

Good work.. did you complete the service?