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      01-14-2015, 03:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AstonMartian777
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Perhaps I should have said fueling tables.

Are you able to access fuel and rescale it as you wish? How are stock ecu's different? The N54 (135i/335i) had this done all day long and the adjustments were a standard for any flash tune, especially if you were to run different fuels. This is a direct injected motor and almost any modern BMW fueling system can support ethanol...You guys are an extremely reputable shop, i am just making sure this isn't smoke and mirrors and a name alone won't handle that. Please tell me what I am missing here...
Well if there's going to be good power gains without fueling issues I don't see a point of using e85, at least for me.
That wasn't the point that I was trying to make... the tuner will know what I am talking about here
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      01-14-2015, 03:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Perhaps I should have said fueling tables.

Are you able to access fuel and rescale it as you wish? How are stock ecu's different? The N54 (135i/335i) had this done all day long and the adjustments were a standard for any flash tune, especially if you were to run different fuels. This is a direct injected motor and almost any modern BMW fueling system can support ethanol...You guys are an extremely reputable shop, i am just making sure this isn't smoke and mirrors and a name alone won't handle that. Please tell me what I am missing here...
This is stock fuel tables for USDM MY14 M5 :





Everything can be rescalled, breakpoints, etc.
AMS have full control on the whole calibration !

This is an awesome team, from sales to engineering deparment and their tuning is amazing. I hope they will greatly affect the US BMW Fxx market !
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      01-14-2015, 03:28 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by IANNUZZI View Post
I believe maximum hp is around 6200rpm. 5200 is where maximum torque is, usually where stock and chipped mercedes 63's get max power.....
My bad, I reversed the graphs. Thanks.
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      01-14-2015, 03:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AurélienFxx View Post
This is stock fuel tables for USDM MY14 M5 :



Everything can be rescalled, breakpoints, etc.
AMS have full control on the whole calibration !

This is an awesome team, from sales to engineering deparment and their tuning is amazing. I hope they will greatly affect the US BMW Fxx market !
Thank you sir, you beat us to it!

Eric
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      01-14-2015, 03:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AurlienFxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Perhaps I should have said fueling tables.

Are you able to access fuel and rescale it as you wish? How are stock ecu's different? The N54 (135i/335i) had this done all day long and the adjustments were a standard for any flash tune, especially if you were to run different fuels. This is a direct injected motor and almost any modern BMW fueling system can support ethanol...You guys are an extremely reputable shop, i am just making sure this isn't smoke and mirrors and a name alone won't handle that. Please tell me what I am missing here...
This is stock fuel tables for USDM MY14 M5 :





Everything can be rescalled, breakpoints, etc.
AMS have full control on the whole calibration !

This is an awesome team, from sales to engineering deparment and their tuning is amazing. I hope they will greatly affect the US BMW Fxx market !
That is a good answer! I am going to guess the guy speaking isn't a tuner but rather some marketing guy...
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      01-14-2015, 03:36 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That is a good answer! I am going to guess the guy speaking isn't a tuner but rather some marketing guy...
I'm the sales manager here at AMS. The gentleman that posted the files is a close friend and colleague of ours and much quicker at the internet than I am apparently lol.

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      01-14-2015, 03:39 PM   #51
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So you guys can easily test out e85 then since you have access to all of the tables. I am sure that many would prefer that over running meth or super expensive race gas. Every other direct injected bmw seems to be ready for it... the m3 is outstanding with it. I will look forward to updates!
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      01-14-2015, 03:49 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
So you guys can easily test out e85 then since you have access to all of the tables. I am sure that many would prefer that over running meth or super expensive race gas. Every other direct injected bmw seems to be ready for it... the m3 is outstanding with it. I will look forward to updates!
Direct injection pumps are not designed for high ethanol content. Fuels containing a high percentage of ethanol are missing the lubrication properties that are contained in traditional pump fuel. Running high amounts of ethanol (e85 etc) will have long term effects on the HPFP.

Eric
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      01-14-2015, 05:33 PM   #53
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So now that real tuning is finally available, how much power do you think could be made with those upgraded billet turbos you released last year?
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      01-14-2015, 06:38 PM   #54
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Just thinking about the possibilities here. The s63tu can run over 22psi on pump gas and has large lungs that can pull hard past 7200rpms.. With aftermarket turbos that can supply the load, we are looking at some vicious power with a proper tune
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      01-14-2015, 07:33 PM   #55
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Nice numbers. Can't wait to get this done on my car.
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      01-14-2015, 09:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvpouldar26
So now that real tuning is finally available, how much power do you think could be made with those upgraded billet turbos you released last year?
I would say much more than the stock rods can take . I would assume they are near their safe limit at 650whp since they are a shared part with the N63 . Guess we will finally get to find out !
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      01-14-2015, 10:59 PM   #57
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looks very promising. where do I sign?
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      01-15-2015, 05:00 AM   #58
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The speed limiter is removed. We can remove CEL's for O2 codes. We can created custom tunes for whatever hardware is on the car. We plan on making a tune for a stock car, as equipped here in this test (ALPHA 7) and for upgraded turbos which are waiting to go on.
Have you tested if the speedlimtiter is COMPLETELY gone? I'm asking this because a few tuners claimed they also removed the limiter(s) And yes the 250km/h and 305km/h limiter is gone but, for example the M-Bitious M5, still hit a limiter at about 315GPS/328km/h on the speedo. So only reprogramming a few points in the software ain't a guarantee the limiter is really gone.

Quote:
Unless they are running on a dynojet comparing power numbers is pointless. This isn't meant to discredit what anyone else is doing just stating that comparing two different dynos will give you virtually no comparable data. Others will be able to do what we have done / are already. I think what sets us apart is that we are actually doing it, we are stateside and we have a resume that most other tuning companies do not. Not to sound cocky but there is about 15-20,000 HP behind the door to my office right now. This isn't our first go around.
Agreed, best way is to measure the cars on the same dyno.
And again i'm not saying you're not doing a good job

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Yes, but these guys are local to us, it wont cost us 3000 euros and we all know they make killer cars.
Quote:
They are German. not very many Americans are willing to ship off their CPU to Germany.
That's great news for you guys overthere!


Quote:
You are correct about that guy.
BTW, that guy never posted any dyno after that and never reported back here...
This one has been posted...



With 2 persons in the car:



In 6th and 7th gear:

Last edited by Erik K.; 01-15-2015 at 05:18 AM..
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      01-15-2015, 06:21 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
I would say much more than the stock rods can take . I would assume they are near their safe limit at 650whp since they are a shared part with the N63 . Guess we will finally get to find out !
I wonder about this as-well... Although from my GTR which is being built they've told me its not so much the HP but trq that will bend/blow rods..

GTRs are in the danger zone at 650wtrq and anything above you're on borrowed time.


VERY promising
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      01-15-2015, 06:47 AM   #60
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A German tuner claims that as of today they can do OBD flash on the Fxx gen cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iFFM View Post
Seems like it's finally cracked.

It's a know german tuner (not one of best, but known ) and he writes on FB:

Quote:
Guys, finally!
Starting today we are able to flash the BMW M4 and a lot of other F-Series models directly via OBD.
Sounds good to me . As far as I know (and I'm quite sure) he doesn't develop his own tunes so this should account for every tuner worldwide (or at least every german tuner :P)

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      01-15-2015, 07:04 AM   #61
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But it's not full OBD.

OBD programming is very easy AFTER bootmode unlock.

How it works :

Step 1 : PWD extraction
Step 2 : Boot mode read, full content of ECU

Now you have two options,

Option A :

Step 3 : ECU patching ( Boot unlock ) for OBD programming
Step 4 : OBD programming of the ECU in car.

Option B :

Step 3 : Boot mode programming.

For people that want to know what is inside the patch, it's a simple skip of the routine that is checking the signature of the software. It can seems cool, but in case of OBD programming warranty is voided, 100% sure. That's because of flash counter increasing, etc. We are working on a patch to fix that allready !
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      01-15-2015, 08:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik K. View Post
Have you tested if the speedlimtiter is COMPLETELY gone? I'm asking this because a few tuners claimed they also removed the limiter(s) And yes the 250km/h and 305km/h limiter is gone but, for example the M-Bitious M5, still hit a limiter at about 315GPS/328km/h on the speedo. So only reprogramming a few points in the software ain't a guarantee the limiter is really gone.



Agreed, best way is to measure the cars on the same dyno.
And again i'm not saying you're not doing a good job





That's great news for you guys overthere!




This one has been posted...



With 2 persons in the car:



In 6th and 7th gear:

Hi, this is Martin Musial, president of the AMS performance and the one who has been playing with the M5 on our dyno.

I would not call that a speed limiter, that is an aerodynamic/horsepower limit I'ts still pulling in 6th gear very slowly and then you have a huge RPM drop going to 7th gear (looks like it drops to 5100 rpm) and you're in a lower part of the power curve (less power), hence it can't pull any more.
Do you know what the limiter was set to in the tune file on that car?

Martin
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      01-15-2015, 09:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
I would say much more than the stock rods can take . I would assume they are near their safe limit at 650whp since they are a shared part with the N63 . Guess we will finally get to find out !
In general the limit for connecting rods and power is dictated by torque. I have not seen a set of rods from this car not do I know how they are made so I cannot comment on this. I do know that being 8 cylinders, the torque is spread across a little better than the 6 cylinder GTR's. For example a 650 ft-lbs torque V6 is about 108 ft-lbs per cylinder, on the V8 that would be only 81 ft-lbs.

Also to clear things up, Dynamometers don't read torque at the wheels, they calculate engine torque through HP and engine RPM. 600 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels would make for a very slow car. That 600 ft-lbs get multiplied through the gearing, differential, etc to get to the wheels.

Martin Musial
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      01-15-2015, 09:35 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
Hi, this is Martin Musial, president of the AMS performance and the one who has been playing with the M5 on our dyno.

I would not call that a speed limiter, that is an aerodynamic/horsepower limit I'ts still pulling in 6th gear very slowly and then you have a huge RPM drop going to 7th gear (looks like it drops to 5100 rpm) and you're in a lower part of the power curve (less power), hence it can't pull any more.
Do you know what the limiter was set to in the tune file on that car?

Martin
Martin,

That's certainly not an aerodynamic/horsepower limit
Car was pulling hard to ~320km/h at that time the speedlimiter was slowly pulling back the power and the car stopped at 326. Sometimes the car runs 328, sometimes 322.. We shifted to 7th gear to check if it would matter. The car stayed at 326. If the engine wouldn't have enough power the car would have slowed down in 7th. It didn't.
If the limiter would have been gone the would easily do >350km/h.
PP-performance showed it with there M6GC with almost the same power.

Accoording to Leib the limiters were set to 400km/h

Last edited by Erik K.; 01-15-2015 at 09:59 AM..
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      01-15-2015, 09:50 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
In general the limit for connecting rods and power is dictated by torque. I have not seen a set of rods from this car not do I know how they are made so I cannot comment on this. I do know that being 8 cylinders, the torque is spread across a little better than the 6 cylinder GTR's. For example a 650 ft-lbs torque V6 is about 108 ft-lbs per cylinder, on the V8 that would be only 81 ft-lbs.

Also to clear things up, Dynamometers don't read torque at the wheels, they calculate engine torque through HP and engine RPM. 600 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels would make for a very slow car. That 600 ft-lbs get multiplied through the gearing, differential, etc to get to the wheels.

Martin Musial
I know n54 handle 700whp on stock internals, no one blew up yet.

Martin thank you for joining this thread, we're all patiently waiting for final results and turbo results, hopefully it will be sooner than we expect and we will see bigger gains than AMG 63 considering we have more bolt ons available for the s63tu, what do you think in regards to that ?

1. Do you think there's more HP to squeeze out with the set up, or this is where you at ?
2. Will full straight turbo back ktles, mufflerless be significant over the system on the test car ?
3. Do you have to drill in the ecu ? What are the risks we're taking ?
4. Is it possible to integrate methanol as it's convenient for every day.
Thanks !
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      01-15-2015, 09:56 AM   #66
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I doubt the addition of a no muffler/straight pipe exhaust system will gain anything measurable with this car. Not to mention it might cause your neighbors to shoot you. The system on this car is pretty free flowing. Again, the turbos at this level are about maxed out so until we upgrade those (which we have available) you are not going to see any large gains regardless of what you do to the car. This system on the car now is a pretty stout setup.

Regarding methanol as was touched on in our other thread we are not big supporters of it. If the system is being used with a 50/50 mix strictly for cooling that is fine as when the system fails (and it will) you are not looking at any severe engine damage. However when using 100% methanol as a supplemental fueling solution you are opening the door to a big "?" in terms of reliability. We have never seen a system not fail and even some of the fail-safe systems have not done what they were supposed to do.

Eric

Last edited by AMS ALPHA; 01-15-2015 at 10:04 AM..
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