Conflicting thoughts: F10 vs E60 (Here we go again)

[werdn]

I sold my E60 M5 (06, super low miles) two years ago, and bought a e90 m3 instead. Currently, I have been 'lusting' for another m5 as my daily in my home state, as I will be bringing the e90 with me to another state for work.

Seeing the prices of the F10 drop to around 35k range for a great example, I am starting the old debate on F10 m5 or another E60 m5 (there is one for around 35k that I have my eyes on with super low miles). I will be dailying the cars.

Currently, my mind tells me to go with F10 because I love its looks (not that e60 looks bad), its modern, it has torque, tunable, and has B&O. But I keep on having afterthoughts thinking am I missing out on great sound and that SMG (yes I actually like the brutal shifts of the SMG), but other than that I would go for the F10 for sure.

So, I have a few questions to ask. Is the F10 m5 really a boat as the internet says, or are they just all clowns? Is there a way to make the exhaust a low grumble like AMG's or 550i's (my preferred V8 tone)? Is the steering really that numb? How bad is the traction stock, and maybe after tuned to 700 WHP? Is it as boring as people say it is?

Thanks, I am having trouble deciding because I feel like I am choosing between a girl who appears mature but is kinky and wild af, and a girl who is always wild (wilder than first will ever get), but gets annoying when you are not in the mood.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by werdn

I sold my E60 M5 (06, super low miles) two years ago, and bought a e90 m3 instead. Currently, I have been 'lusting' for another m5 as my daily in my home state, as I will be bringing the e90 with me to another state for work.

Seeing the prices of the F10 drop to around 35k range for a great example, I am starting the old debate on F10 m5 or another E60 m5 (there is one for around 35k that I have my eyes on with super low miles). I will be dailying the cars.

Currently, my mind tells me to go with F10 because I love its looks (not that e60 looks bad), its modern, it has torque, tunable, and has B&O. But I keep on having afterthoughts thinking am I missing out on great sound and that SMG (yes I actually like the brutal shifts of the SMG), but other than that I would go for the F10 for sure.

So, I have a few questions to ask. Is the F10 m5 really a boat as the internet says, or are they just all clowns? Is there a way to make the exhaust a low grumble like AMG's or 550i's (my preferred V8 tone)? Is the steering really that numb? How bad is the traction stock, and maybe after tuned to 700 WHP? Is it as boring as people say it is?

Thanks, I am having trouble deciding because I feel like I am choosing between a girl who appears mature but is kinky and wild af, and a girl who is always wild (wilder than first will ever get), but gets annoying when you are not in the mood.

F10 is the ultimate wolf in sheeps clothing, whoever told you that an F10 is boring can't be a car person.

[Noggie]

Personally I would never consider an E60, simply because it is too old.
I was looking at buying one in 2008, but decided to wait and ended up with an E46 M3 instead.

I find the F10 a perfect package, capable of everything.
Mine is a competition pack, I have no experience with the standard one, but I hear the Competiton pack is a huge improvement, especially with regards to suspension/handling.

Traction with a stock 575hp Comp pack is fine, if you have proper tires, there was a huge difference with Supersports and PS4s, the PS4s made me really have to want it to loose traction to do it, no issues during regular driving.

Dropped a 670hp chip in it, and now the PS4s are really struggling, nice and manageable with DSC on but it is really held back by a blinking DSC light on anything more than moderate accelerations above 2500rpm.
in MDM mode (track mode) the car will easily start wagging its tail up to 60mph on hard accelerations. I saw the DSC light blink past 75mph a few times.
When it slides its very predictable and easy to control, I was surprised how easy it was to handle.

Steering, I set it to sport, Comfort is just too light. I think it's fine, guess you can mess it up with wheels/tires/suspension mods as well.

Sound, I find the valved Comp pack exhaust just fine, but I don't want it too loud, best tip would be to check out youtube for sound with various systems. I'd think the Comp pack is fine for a daily driver.

Just my two cents.

[werdn]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Personally I would never consider an E60, simply because it is too old.
I was looking at buying one in 2008, but decided to wait and ended up with an E46 M3 instead.

I find the F10 a perfect package, capable of everything.
Mine is a competition pack, I have no experience with the standard one, but I hear the Competiton pack is a huge improvement, especially with regards to suspension/handling.

Traction with a stock 575hp Comp pack is fine, if you have proper tires, there was a huge difference with Supersports and PS4s, the PS4s made me really have to want it to loose traction to do it, no issues during regular driving.

Dropped a 670hp chip in it, and now the PS4s are really struggling, nice and manageable with DSC on but it is really held back by a blinking DSC light on anything more than moderate accelerations above 2500rpm.
in MDM mode (track mode) the car will easily start wagging its tail up to 60mph on hard accelerations. I saw the DSC light blink past 75mph a few times.
When it slides its very predictable and easy to control, I was surprised how easy it was to handle.

Steering, I set it to sport, Comfort is just too light. I think it's fine, guess you can mess it up with wheels/tires/suspension mods as well.

Sound, I find the valved Comp pack exhaust just fine, but I don't want it too loud, best tip would be to check out youtube for sound with various systems. I'd think the Comp pack is fine for a daily driver.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for your response. I have been looking at multiple video's on YouTube, but I might have to hit up some members in SoCal to see what the exhausts sound like in person.

I wonder if Toyo R888R's would be better, or it might be a bit overkill.

The m6 gran coupe is also an option for me, it looks great. I wonder how the E63 of similar generation is.

[M5Yams]

My two cents here, first the looks of the f10 are just incredible, still my favorite looking m5. It has the right amount of aggressiveness to it but not too far out there like the f90. To me it splits the difference between the e60 and the f90 perfectly, not as subtle as e60 but still classier than the f90.

Next on to the boat comment, I wouldn't call it a boat, it has a nice turning circle to it and feels light, I think it hides its weight well but can start to lean heavily in the corners with the wrong tires on it. When I bought mine I had a set of Bridgestone potenza re980as on it and if you took a corner with any kind of pace to it the car leaned harder than my 2007 lincoln mkz. Anyhow I looked into it and bought some michelin ps4s and made a world of difference, its incredibly level through the corners and feels great. But with the overall appearance I went to a car meet and parked next to an e60 m5 and it is much longer and wider.

Stock traction really depends on tires as well as i stated before, the original tires I had I got to spin at 60 easily, the ps4s no problem and hooks up well, still can spin them though without dcs and MDM.

Sound is very subjective, but noggie is right look on YouTube. What I will say is stock the exhaust is great when on the throttle but just cruising around it had a lot to be desired, but you can pipe strap the valves on the exhaust tips open and it really improved the sound enough that I dont constantly think about buying an exhaust, now it's just something I'll do down the road. What I'm trying to say is I love the way my car sounds but akrapovic has my heart.

Steering isnt numb most the time but it can be when you really dont want it to be. You can feel a lot through the steering wheel just going down the road but when you push around a corner you will notice the feeling fades.
And I won't say that they're wrong about it being boring. I daily drive my car 35 miles round trip on long straight highways and in city, the f10 is a perfect cruiser where its completely fine and feels like a normal car, but when you put your foot down or take a curvy road it's anything but normal. Will it have your brutal shifts of the e60 no, they're perfectly smooth and blindingly fast.
Also I drive a competition model so the sway bars are tighter and stays more level and the exhaust is a little different (no baffles I believe)

[vafan13]

It's a big car but I think it does well hiding that weight. The only place I find it unsatisfying is in the sound department. Hoping a louder exhaust will help with that, debating an open element intake. BMW should really have offered a "sound deadening reduction" option with this car. Or heck, just made it standard.

The E60 has the V10 sound and is otherwise trounced in every department. Less reliable, crap gas mileage for a DD, much slower, way shittier trans, and nowhere near as good looking.

P.S. pretty sure you aren't going to want R888Rs on a DD.

[M5Rick]

E60 V10 wins hands down for sound, for sure the best sound of all time.
In looks tho the E60 in UK is nicknamed 'the matron' for it's conservative looks.

[M5pnw]

f10 m5 and its not even close for me. I was choosing between the e60 and the f10. tried both and instantly knew I was gonna go f10. Of course if it was up to sound e60 wins. My f10 has catless dp and an exhaust so im not hurting for sound. These were the first M cars ive ever driven as ive been an Audi guy for a long time.

F10 and don't look back.

[werdn]

Originally Posted by M5pnw

f10 m5 and its not even close for me. I was choosing between the e60 and the f10. tried both and instantly knew I was gonna go f10. Of course if it was up to sound e60 wins. My f10 has catless dp and an exhaust so im not hurting for sound. These were the first M cars ive ever driven as ive been an Audi guy for a long time.

F10 and don't look back.

Yeah, I think the f10 was ahead of its time, and was so well that f90 is pretty similar to it today. Did you consider the M6 GC?

[werdn]

Originally Posted by vafan13

It's a big car but I think it does well hiding that weight. The only place I find it unsatisfying is in the sound department. Hoping a louder exhaust will help with that, debating an open element intake. BMW should really have offered a "sound deadening reduction" option with this car. Or heck, just made it standard.

The E60 has the V10 sound and is otherwise trounced in every department. Less reliable, crap gas mileage for a DD, much slower, way shittier trans, and nowhere near as good looking.

P.S. pretty sure you aren't going to want R888Rs on a DD.

Haha, my neighbor with a tuned C63s runs r888r's on his DD, I have no idea how he drives in the rain

[werdn]

Originally Posted by M5Yams

My two cents here, first the looks of the f10 are just incredible, still my favorite looking m5. It has the right amount of aggressiveness to it but not too far out there like the f90. To me it splits the difference between the e60 and the f90 perfectly, not as subtle as e60 but still classier than the f90.

Next on to the boat comment, I wouldn't call it a boat, it has a nice turning circle to it and feels light, I think it hides its weight well but can start to lean heavily in the corners with the wrong tires on it. When I bought mine I had a set of Bridgestone potenza re980as on it and if you took a corner with any kind of pace to it the car leaned harder than my 2007 lincoln mkz. Anyhow I looked into it and bought some michelin ps4s and made a world of difference, its incredibly level through the corners and feels great. But with the overall appearance I went to a car meet and parked next to an e60 m5 and it is much longer and wider.

Stock traction really depends on tires as well as i stated before, the original tires I had I got to spin at 60 easily, the ps4s no problem and hooks up well, still can spin them though without dcs and MDM.

Sound is very subjective, but noggie is right look on YouTube. What I will say is stock the exhaust is great when on the throttle but just cruising around it had a lot to be desired, but you can pipe strap the valves on the exhaust tips open and it really improved the sound enough that I dont constantly think about buying an exhaust, now it's just something I'll do down the road. What I'm trying to say is I love the way my car sounds but akrapovic has my heart.

Steering isnt numb most the time but it can be when you really dont want it to be. You can feel a lot through the steering wheel just going down the road but when you push around a corner you will notice the feeling fades.
And I won't say that they're wrong about it being boring. I daily drive my car 35 miles round trip on long straight highways and in city, the f10 is a perfect cruiser where its completely fine and feels like a normal car, but when you put your foot down or take a curvy road it's anything but normal. Will it have your brutal shifts of the e60 no, they're perfectly smooth and blindingly fast.
Also I drive a competition model so the sway bars are tighter and stays more level and the exhaust is a little different (no baffles I believe)

I wonder if the M6 GC is a lot more better in terms of driving than the m5. I like it in terms of looks, but m5 seems to be the more sensible choice.

[M5Yams]

Originally Posted by werdn

I wonder if the M6 GC is a lot more better in terms of driving than the m5. I like it in terms of looks, but m5 seems to be the more sensible choice.

Hard to say man, I know the M6 was designed as the sportier car and it does sit a little lower, which mean its center of gravity is lower as well. All that could affect handling but I'm pretty sure it's the same steering rack and everything so the numbness would still be there at times. By no means is the f10 not sporty, but if you're looking for something with good handling characteristics you are going to want the comp pack.
And back to the boring comment I'm only saying they aren't wrong because it can feel like a normal car until you want it too be ballistic. But in all other aspects it's not boring. And the feeling you get when someone knows what an m5 is and see the car and gets so excited is incredible.

[werdn]

Originally Posted by M5Yams

Hard to say man, I know the M6 was designed as the sportier car and it does sit a little lower, which mean its center of gravity is lower as well. All that could affect handling but I'm pretty sure it's the same steering rack and everything so the numbness would still be there at times. By no means is the f10 not sporty, but if you're looking for something with good handling characteristics you are going to want the comp pack.
And back to the boring comment I'm only saying they aren't wrong because it can feel like a normal car until you want it too be ballistic. But in all other aspects it's not boring. And the feeling you get when someone knows what an m5 is and see the car and gets so excited is incredible.

That normal car feeling until I really get on it is what I want. The problem with my old e60 was that it felt like it always wanted me to play with it. But the problem is, the majority of the time I just want to drive the car normally and listen to music. So all in all, I think the F10 might be the go to for me.

I did some research on the M6 GC yesterday (also been in one few years ago), yes it is lower than the M5, but I don't like the seat design compared to the M5 (lmao), and I actually like the dash design of the m5 more. I am actually considering getting the Jahre 30 M5, lol the Alcantara tickles my interests

[M5Yams]

Originally Posted by werdn

That normal car feeling until I really get on it is what I want. The problem with my old e60 was that it felt like it always wanted me to play with it. But the problem is, the majority of the time I just want to drive the car normally and listen to music. So all in all, I think the F10 might be the go to for me.

I did some research on the M6 GC yesterday (also been in one few years ago), yes it is lower than the M5, but I don't like the seat design compared to the M5 (lmao), and I actually like the dash design of the m5 more. I am actually considering getting the Jahre 30 M5, lol the Alcantara tickles my interests

The frozen dark silver color of the jahre addition is beautiful, but although the Alcantara is nice, it degrades very quickly to being touched often makes it poor for a DD. Then you have 600hp output from the engine but it's only a tune which means the standard and it are really the same. But the upsides is the color is incredible and the bragging about 1 in 300 special addition is very cool. On the m6 side I actually dont like the center console. Design overall I like the m5 better, the m6 just seems more rounded and I'm just not a fan. Oh and the B&O is awesome, crazy clarity and round sound profile.

[x35250]

The F10 M5 (non-Competition) in stock form on Comfort throttle feels like a tank. You can switch to Sport or Sport Plus but are supposed to stay in Comfort for the first 5 miles and not operating temperature is reached.

This was really annoying to me at first. Now that I am on a JordanTuned map, though, all throttle modes are phenomenal. As others have said, the car is engineered so well that it feels nothing like a 5000-lb car.

Comfort mode is really my only complaint.

Also, anything past 650 ft-lb wheel torque is going to require upgraded clutch packs for the DCT (4k for parts alone) due to the limits of the stock. I was hesitant about the DCT at first, but love it now. It's nice to be able to switch between automatic and manu-matic mode depending on my mood. I miss the clutch pedal and the feeling of being more connected to the road, but the DCT makes me smile when the traction light blinks on nearly every shift due to the massive torque it's putting down.

The F10 is the best car I've owned.

[M5pnw]

The f10 is the ultimate normal car. If you want the monster just press m1 or m2 and your pooping on 99% of the cars on the road.

[M5pnw]

Originally Posted by werdn

Yeah, I think the f10 was ahead of its time, and was so well that f90 is pretty similar to it today. Did you consider the M6 GC?

The f10 is the ultimate normal car. If you want the monster just press m1 or m2 and your pooping on 99% of the cars on the road. I came from a stg 2 audi s5 so this time around I wanted a sedan. there were no M6 GCs that appealed to me in my area. I love the look of the M5. Once I put either the PSM dynamic or dinmann kit on it im gonna love it even more.

[M5Yams]

Originally Posted by x35250

The F10 M5 (non-Competition) in stock form on Comfort throttle feels like a tank. You can switch to Sport or Sport Plus but are supposed to stay in Comfort for the first 5 miles and not operating temperature is reached.

This was really annoying to me at first. Now that I am on a JordanTuned map, though, all throttle modes are phenomenal. As others have said, the car is engineered so well that it feels nothing like a 5000-lb car.

Comfort mode is really my only complaint.

Also, anything past 650 ft-lb wheel torque is going to require upgraded clutch packs for the DCT (4k for parts alone) due to the limits of the stock. I was hesitant about the DCT at first, but love it now. It's nice to be able to switch between automatic and manu-matic mode depending on my mood. I miss the clutch pedal and the feeling of being more connected to the road, but the DCT makes me smile when the traction light blinks on nearly every shift due to the massive torque it's putting down.

The F10 is the best car I've owned.

100% agree with the comfort/efficient mode one the throttle response, unfortunately it is what I use most of the time because I DD mine and get 25-28 mpg going 70mph, 30-35mpg going 40mph through town. The key is to have your m1 or m2 button set to sport or sport plus so you can quickly change into cruise missile mode. That and if I'm not driving to and from work I just manually put it in sport mode and the dct into the 2 setting and there you go. And yeah I always heard to keep it under 3k rpm, which is another annoying this is the cooling system in these cars is so good it takes forever to get up to temp.

[SCD-1983]

Being fortunate to having experienced the ownership of 2 E60 M5 (2007 and 2010) and now being on my 3rd F10 M5 (2012, 2014 and again 2014), I have to vote for the F10 M5 as DD. The SMG III was a blast to drive, in combination with the almighty S85 V10, but it required some skill and high revs or a German Autobahn to keep it fun. The sound of the V10 is unmatched and the shift brutality of this special SMG version as well, but the upkeep and potential costly repair issues made me use the E60 as a pleasure car only. The F10 on the other hand is a true gem, a combination of luxury sedan, family cruiser and total maniac, on the push of the M1 or M2 button.
I do miss the raw driving pleasure of the E60 M5 and there won't be another BMW like it, but in terms of reliability and amenities, it's surpassed by the F10.
You should go with your guts, in the end it's your personal preference and should make you smile.
For me, the F10 M5 is the ultimate driving machine at this point!

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by M5Yams

which is another annoying this is the cooling system in these cars is so good it takes forever to get up to temp.

I believe it's less about the cooling system, as it doesn't even run oil through the oil cooler until it gets close to temp, but that there's just *so much* oil. 9 liters is a lot of oil for a fairly efficient 4.4L engine to heat up while at the same time only getting very light pedal use. That said, it is definitely something I get impatient about. One might say the waiting is the hardest part.

[Sabs1815]

Agreed on so many of the above mentioned posts. I've owned and driven both E60 and F10. The E60 is fantastic for what it was and the SMG III as well, blast to drive, raw and full with emotion. But the reliability of it for a DD wasn't great and that SMG can get tiring after a while when you're not driving it hard with the constant jerk of the shifts.

I am now on my second F10. It is truly the best all around car I've ever owned. It has luxury, comfort, space and pulls like a freight train. Just yesterday I had my wife and 2 kids in the car with their car seats. The car managed to put a smile on my 3 year old's face constantly coaxing me "Again dad!!!" When they fell asleep they had no idea they were in a 560 HP monster. Which I guess is a good thing and bad thing (to some).

The weight definitely disappears when you are really hauling, and to the point of comfort mode, yes it absolutely feels every bit its weight with all the settings on comfort (Steering, suspension, throttle and DCT). My DD preferences is Sport plus throttle, Comfort Suspension, Sport Steering and DCT 2 Auto. The car both performs and chills at those settings and for me I feel its exactly the way my M5 should feel.

If I could, E60/63 weekend car. F10 M5 for the DD win. You are on an F10 M5 forum though so your most certainly going to get some HEAVILY biased responses here!

[Fast.F10]

Coming from an E60 (to a lifted modded 15 F250 SD that only lasted 1.5 years) to a 16 F10...The E60 was bigger which im still having an issue over. But trying to live with it. It has similar power...but different. Clutch feel difference....go drive one and pay attention to your head jerk..or lack there of. Other than the size difference..I love it. Will also miss my Indy Red though.