F1 2022: Azerbaijan GP - Baku (June 12)

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by F87source

Merc probably happy they didn't retain bottas over him. Literally the only reason why merc is some what close to the top 2 teams.

Close, but still quite far and pace is way off. For Max not to have the benefit of the first safety car stop and still stomp Rus by 40+ second and Ham by 70+ seconds, he is in another league than anyone. And to think, he slowed his pace significantly too...

Top two right now on the grid by good margin are Max and Per.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

In my mind, the same goes for Schumacher, Verstappen, Prost, Senna. Given the number of changes the cars are constantly undergoing, and by the drivers' own admissions, when they lose, it's a bad car, when they win it's a good car.

Otherwise, are you telling me, Perez, Sainz, Russell and LeClerk all surpassed Hamilton in skill in just 1 year? It is the cars, it has always been and always will be the cars. There's no way to objectively determine who the best driver is, because they don't all start with the same car.

You can take the shortsighted way and say look 7ir 7amilton 777777, but will look silly during times like this. Give me a break.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Wolff said : HAM's floor was bouncing with 6 G against the asphalt !

Toto also said in Barcelona that the porpoising was 100% gone and that they fully understood the problem...

Toto's credibility is about 0% right now

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by NYG

I never took anyone seriously that called Hamilton the goat and I respect the shit out of his driving.

That guy said so much..... about the RB atmosphere being toxic.... about RB always on purpose giving the 2nd driver bad cars etc etc.
I think Checo disagrees with all of that, how happy he was that he could extend his contract
Last year Checo had his best season ever in his long career, and this year surely he will succeed that; he might even become Max biggest rival for the WDC. (I rate Max the best driver, but between Max, Checo and LEC the championship is still 100% open. All it takes is a crash between Max and Charles, and PER is the leading man...and if he then takes pole the next race...)

GAS also wants to return to RB more than anything....

[NYG]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That guy said so much..... about the RB atmosphere being toxic.... about RB always on purpose giving the 2nd driver bad cars etc etc.
I think Checo disagrees with all of that
GAS also wants to return to RB more than anything....

I actually don't even think GAS should move to McLaren.

I see more potential with AlphaTauri and Pierre building a reputation to go to the main team at some point. He just has to be patient and not greedy like Ric/Alonso were. Alonso paid really hard for this stuff - he could have easily won more championships.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by NYG

I actually don't even think GAS should move to McLaren.

Yes I was also thinking that during the race in Baku
I mean there it looked like AT was MERC's main rival, not McLaren
With the budget cuts it's a completly different market.
The chance that GAS ends up at Ferrari or MERC is I think pretty small.
So the only viable choice now is Mclaren, but there he will most certainly become 2nd driver.
And it looked to me that the AT cars don't have that much porpoising, so something is good at that car.
The only other option might be that if Ocon moves to MERC and Alonso also maybe retires he could become 1st driver at alpine. French driver at a french team.... the french like that. But is Alpine better than AT?

IF GAS stays at AT, he could maybe go back to RB if Checo retires...

[wdb]

Originally Posted by NYG

As someone with 2 herniated discs and spinal stenosis - he's 100% a massive actor just like he is with everything he does. It's why 9 year olds love him.

Take your herniated discs and sit on a plank. Now bang the plank up and down onto pavement at 1/2 second intervals, 100 times in a row. Wait 30 seconds, repeat. Continue for 2 hours.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by wdb

Take your herniated discs and sit on a plank. Now bang the plank up and down onto pavement at 1/2 second intervals, 100 times in a row. Wait 30 seconds, repeat. Continue for 2 hours.

I'm in steel construction bruh. I've driven on Sebring for long stints too.

F1 drivers also don't "sit" in their cars so spinal compression and decompression isn't happening the way you're assuming under porpoising.

Again - I'm not saying that it's pleasant or that there was no pain but the way he was getting out of his car was hilariously exaggerated. I don't even walk like that when I aggravate my injury and I'm MISERABLE when it happens.

[Bubbles]

Hamilton’s Merc remains a rocketship. The cornering speed and midrange acceleration is top in class.

Top speed suffers because of the above reasons.

Data seems to support that Hamilton is using an aggressive set up which increases bouncing. Clever performance.

Checo killed his tires running at such speeds.

Adding active suspension or j dampener to the Merc and it will be game over for the rest of the field.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Toto also said in Barcelona that the porpoising was 100% gone and that they fully understood the problem...

Toto's credibility is about 0% right now

Please read my post in # 261 . Then you know what Toto really wants ....

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I know many hate Hamilton on this forum but he most certainly isn't the only one to complain about the proposing.

Seems GASLY is the latest to come out and say enough is enough. The challenge is yes the teams can increase ride hight but the performance suffers and the teams (all of them) are saying suck it up and take it for the most part.

So I think the FIA will be forced to do something to help everyone from the front to the back despite the teams rejecting solutions pre-season it appears.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...t-30/10321665/

Read the article. It is his choice to deal with bouncing in exchange for more speed.

FIA doesn't need to do anything.

"The team is asking me, 'OK, we can compromise the set-up?' and I'm compromising my health for the performance. And I'll always do it, because I'm a driver and I always go for the fastest car I can.

There is clearly a way around bouncing for the inferior cars, that is to go slower by setting up the car not to porpoise.

Other teams have it under control while going fast.

It is the driver/team choice how much porpoising they have with their setups.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Read the article. It is his choice to deal with bouncing in exchange for more speed.

FIA doesn't need to do anything.

There is clearly a way around bouncing for the inferior cars, that is to go slower by setting up the car not to porpoise.

Other teams have it under control while going fast.

It is the driver/team choice how much porpoising they have with their setups.

FIA does not need to, and should not do a thing. It's a set up and maybe a design issue. Let them figure it out. My guess is they want the FIA to help them since they cannot seem to get it straight.

[Bubbles]

Vote required for rule change

Current season 2022: any regulation change requires unanimous approval from all teams and FIA. All teams voted against.

Season 2023: 28 out of 30 votes required. RBR, Alpine, AT, Ferrari, Haas and Alpha unlikely to support.

Season 2024 -2025: possibly but new rules for 2026, short term benefit.

Season 2026: new regulation set

Safety exception: FIA can unilaterally change rules for safety concerns, but this requires data to support which will take time. Merc and Hamilton have a very high threshold for data proof (nose jewelry), otherwise they will ignore the rules.

Key issue: Whether a phenomenon that can be dialed out by ride height should be viewed as a safety issue. Unlikely, but this is politics.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Hamilton’s Merc remains a rocketship. The cornering speed and midrange acceleration is top in class.

Top speed suffers because of the above reasons.

Data seems to support that Hamilton is using an aggressive set up which increases bouncing. Clever performance.

Checo killed his tires running at such speeds.

Adding active suspension or j dampener to the Merc and it will be game over for the rest of the field.

It's not even that much faster than the rest of the field.

I'm also not confident with the bouncing gone the car will be faster than RB and Ferrari, we saw in Barcelona that they were still slower even with the w13 having the lowest porpoising amplitude compared to all the cars.

[Killed by Death]

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Her hands are like magic !!!

Query, who took the picture?

Hamilton’s personal photographer that travels with him?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

It's not even that much faster than the rest of the field.

I'm also not confident with the bouncing gone the car will be faster than RB and Ferrari, we saw in Barcelona that they were still slower even with the w13 having the lowest porpoising amplitude compared to all the cars.

Data disagrees. Certainly not a W11 gap (2.5 sec a lap faster) but data indicates it would be top in class. Technically, proposing and bouncing are separate issues albeit somewhat similar.

Barcelona data

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Query, who took the picture?

Hamilton’s personal photographer that travels with him?

It was HAM with his extension stick ..

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Data disagrees. Certainly not a W11 gap (2.5 sec a lap faster) but data indicates it would be top in class. Technically, proposing and bouncing are separate issues albeit somewhat similar.

Barcelona data

You said the cornering speed remain top of the class, but that's not true. Intermediate trap speeds measure speeds on shorter straights biasing acceleration so yes acceleration is good because the w13 has short gearing. But it doesn't mean they have the best cornering speeds, because that's where they're losing alot of time even without the bouncing in Barcelona. Btw the Barcelona data was the one that is suspect because Hamiltons car was much faster than George's hinting that this data could be inaccurate as there could've been a tow in play.





This is Baku:




There is no speed advantage here, and this is a fast track rivalling even Monza in terms of top speed. What is apparent here is redbull is near the top as they have been all year round and have a big gap to Merc and Ferrari.

[DrFerry]

Video discussing potential for changes to address porpoising by the FIA.

And

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

You said the cornering speed remain top of the class, but that's not true. Intermediate trap speeds measure speeds on shorter straights biasing acceleration so yes acceleration is good because the w13 has short gearing. But it doesn't mean they have the best cornering speeds, because that's where they're losing alot of time even without the bouncing in Barcelona. Btw the Barcelona data was the one that is suspect because Hamiltons car was much faster than George's hinting that this data could be inaccurate as there could've been a tow in play.





This is Baku:




There is no speed advantage here, and this is a fast track rivalling even Monza in terms of top speed. What is apparent here is redbull is near the top as they have been all year round and have a big gap to Merc and Ferrari.

Possibly, given the data — we are likely both wrong.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by NYG

Ocon is still a possibility. I don't think he's worthy yet but who knows.

Ocon lacks something, he was formidable in F2 but drives average at the moment. Alonso despite the point differential has performed better.

Grid will miss Alonso and his antics.