07-25-2010, 04:48 PM | #1 |
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Ferrari team order controversy.
let me hear your thoughts.
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07-25-2010, 06:04 PM | #2 | |
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07-25-2010, 06:26 PM | #3 |
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07-25-2010, 06:39 PM | #4 |
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they deserved a lot more than they got though.
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07-25-2010, 06:47 PM | #5 |
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I'm sure you enjoyed the fake win for FA....
He wasn't a race driver...he didn't even bother to try to overtake...just ask the team and he will get the team mate out of the way....
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07-25-2010, 06:50 PM | #6 | |
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but in both ways, Ferrari will get 1-2 unless both crashed out... however FA didn't even bother to pass Massa....that's not what a true racer's attitude....so much for FA "I don't know anything about it"....
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07-25-2010, 06:52 PM | #7 | |
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What Ferrari did is illegal, hence the fine and they tried to cover what they were doing with some clever wording to Massa.
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07-25-2010, 07:13 PM | #8 | |
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I don't see what the big deal is. They first and foremost race for the team, not themselves.
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07-25-2010, 07:35 PM | #9 |
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Their only mistake was making it so blatantly obvious. As others have said team orders have existed since F1 has existed. Does it make for the best thing to watch, of course not, but its part of the sport.
In the 50's, one driver gave up his CAR to his team mate because his own failed and he needed the points to win the championship. How would you guys react to this now? The mistake was not even making it seem like Massa made a mistake or something that is not as obvious as pulling over on the straight. My feeling is the FIA will remove their points or do something else draconian. And Alonso did try to overtake a few times once Massa came back out on the hard tires. Massa shut the door on him and Alonso would have had to divebomb him to get past, so for the sake of the team it makes more sense to have the driver with much more points win while keeping a 1-2 for maximum points. The teams want to win the constructors championship first, but the drivers championship is also important to them and that is the main reason for what happened today.
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07-25-2010, 07:52 PM | #10 | |
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07-25-2010, 07:53 PM | #11 |
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If he can't get by then he doesn't deserve to win.
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07-25-2010, 08:02 PM | #12 |
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It's CHEATING man. Guess you also follow just the rules you like. And it's a rule for a reason: IT DETRACTS FROM THE SPORT. Just like when an Uruguay player pushed the ball out of the goal with his hands. Yeah, did it 'for the team', but what an illegitimate way to win. Anyway, it's useless to discuss this with people who think anything goes as long as it benefits 'the team'. And since you're not part of the M3 'team', I'm 'kicking' (as ignoring) you out . And this crap comes from a supposed 'track rat' .
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07-25-2010, 08:24 PM | #13 | |
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07-25-2010, 09:13 PM | #14 |
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If he can't get pass Massa without team order then he's not good enough to win today...
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07-25-2010, 09:22 PM | #15 |
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The FIA needs to get rid of the ban on team orders.
They still exist and will continue to exist; it's ridiculous that the team should have to put on some elaborate show to make it look like it happened on accident (we'd all still know that Massa was told to give up the position). Alonso did make a few attempts to pass, and probably decided it was best to have the team resolve it rather then make a dive down the inside and potentially end both driver's race. That would not have helped the team. For those of you against team orders; do you view it as unfair to the other teams, or to the other driver? If it's because of the other teams, this played no major role in how the race finished. Vettel was still 3rd. In fact, it would probably have been easier for him to overtake Massa for 2nd then Alonso. If it's because of how it establishes an obvious "favorite driver" within the team. Well that's life. Everyone's not equal and in F1, drivers are not equal. Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen… those are all #1 drivers. Not based solely on ability behind the wheel, but also their out of car character. All teams play favorites. Look at Redbull giving Webber's front wing to Seb when his was damaged; or Mercedes changing to a longer chassis because it was what Schumacher preferred.
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07-25-2010, 09:24 PM | #16 | |
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Belive me I dont like it one bit, but its nothing new in the sport. The fact that the rules exists against it are pretty clear. Ferrari are playing their sly game that they never ordered Massa to let him past, but as is clear, no one is buying it. Im quite sure that Ferrari will at the least lose all points for today, and possibly be excluded from this years championships in regards to points. In the end of the day, the teams are there to win, BOTH championships. If they let Massa win to be "fair" and they lose a championship because of it, they're stupid. The mistake was making it so blatant. Truth is Alonso has quite thoroughly outperformed Massa this whole season. Massa is a decent driver when the car works in his favor, otherwise he's an also ran. Massa would not have been able to do half of what Alonso did with last years Renault, nor has he been able to keep pace with Alonso this year while the car has been terrible. Alonso was faster today, not by much, but he was faster. Ferrari took a decision which will haunt them, but in their mind it was the smartest thing to do looking at why they exist, to win, both championships at all costs.
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07-25-2010, 09:50 PM | #17 | |
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07-25-2010, 10:52 PM | #18 | |
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I'll agree the media gets carried away with many things, but today it's with good reason. Just when I give Ferrari credit for having such fast cars, and good drivers the team blows it by sending a team order. Answer me this, If Alonso was so much faster, why didn't he simply pass Massa under normal racing circumstances. From a driver and team joint perspective, Massa doesn't really have a chance at the DC. But Alonso really doesn't either. I think once Mclaren gets their upgrades in order Ferrari will be fully back into 3rd place. So from a team perspective only, the result is exactly the same either way.
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Last edited by UltimateBMW; 07-25-2010 at 11:04 PM.. |
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07-25-2010, 10:53 PM | #19 | |
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The message wasn't simply, "Alonso is faster." The message was, "Alonso is faster, can you confirm that you understand this message?" The latter being well and above more telling I think.
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Last edited by UltimateBMW; 07-25-2010 at 11:03 PM.. |
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07-25-2010, 10:59 PM | #20 |
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Let me clarify a bit that I don't really have an issue with team orders, I fully understand their importance. However, I just think Ferrari performed theirs in very poor taste in Germany.
Such a great weekend for them, and such a great drive by both their drivers and then their management shits all over it with an ill conceived team order, with even poorer execution.
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07-25-2010, 11:38 PM | #21 | |
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This, also, is reality.
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07-25-2010, 11:39 PM | #22 | |
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"Good lad, now get on with it. Sorry."
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