HELP! M5 F10 just turned off.

umz · 11-05-2019, 03:14 AM

Hi all,

It’s been a while since I last posted, it’s been a tough month to say the least. So an update. I took the car to a dealership for diagnostics and they stripped the engine back. Confirmed that the Crank Shaft Bearing spun causing internal damage to the engine (more than one component), as a result, swarf travelling through the engine, so concluded that an engine replacement is required.

As some of you already know, the car was purchased privately, only has 33k on the clock and full BMWSH. Unfortunately has no warranty (did not even get the chance to add warranty, owned the car for like 5 days and about 80 miles).

I raised this with customer services and kept on pushing; they have come from zero to 60% contribution on parts only. This brings the bill shy of £20k (need to think of labour costs too). Do not get me wrong, I am not unappreciative, as BMW do not have to offer anything and are not legally obliged to either, I am just in a position where I just simply cannot afford to pay that, I mean I purchased the car for £24k. I understand that these cars are expensive to run/maintain, but would never anticipate something like this within 5 days of ownership, I threw all my money at it to buy it

I’m an optimistic person, so trying to push and request for further support. BMW have come from Zero –60%, I’m hoping they can push the offer to 80%, that will put me in a position to be able to kind of afford the repair! These cars should not seize at 33K. Not going down without a fight! (Not much of a leg to stand on to be fair).

I now need to make preparations if BMW are to say NO and that’s that! This has been ongoing with BMW for a month now!

Options:
What are my options moving forward? Is this it? I only get to own/drive an M5 for 5 days? Gutted is an understatement! but I guess I will have to bite the bullet, accept the loss and just move on and steer way clear of M Power cars in the future.

Just a few questions as I am currently exploring different options:

1. The BMW senior technician mentioned that one bearing spun and there is swarf that has travelled the engine, hence the need for a replacement. Is there hope in rebuilding, is this possible considering the damage explained? Who can actually do this work? In addition, my fear here is, what will it cost?

2. My M5 is a 2013 (Sept 2013), facelift and has 33K on the clock. Bodywork and interior are very clean. How much would these sell with a seized engine?

Apologies for the long post guys!

Thanks in advance.

OneExtra · 11-05-2019, 03:21 AM

I would push for BMW to cover the labour as well as the parts and also ask about a warranty after the work has been completed, the fact that they are offering a contribution at all suggests that the are aware of a possible issue.

I cannot remember but has the car been tuned ever before or are there signs of any mods no matter how small?

If BMW didnt have to pay anything then they wouldnt the fact they have offered something shows that its all still on the table, you need to go and see your local BMW main dealer and get them to work with you on this as they can be very helpful and have a good working relationship with BMW Head Office

umz · 11-05-2019, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneExtra

I would push for BMW to cover the labour as well as the parts and also ask about a warranty after the work has been completed, the fact that they are offering a contribution at all suggests that the are aware of a possible issue.

I cannot remember but has the car been tuned ever before or are there signs of any mods no matter how small?

If BMW didnt have to pay anything then they wouldnt the fact they have offered something shows that its all still on the table, you need to go and see your local BMW main dealer and get them to work with you on this as they can be very helpful and have a good working relationship with BMW Head Office

Thank you fro your response.

BMW are pretty tough to get through and honestly speaking will not contribute anything towards the labour, its something i know i will have to cover myself. I have been fighting with them for the past month now and just about managed to get the 60%, initially offering nothing, then 50% and now 60%. I really dont think they will contribute anymore (not going to stop me from pushing further though).

No, the car has not been tuned, been stock all its life.

TBH, the dealer has been very helpful in trying to push BMW, so credit due there. Need to call customer services again today and try another push for more, feel like im running out of things to say to them.

They have leverage on me, that i purchased the car privately! using that saying the repair is more than the price of purchase.

OneExtra · 11-05-2019, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Thank you fro your response.

BMW are pretty tough to get through and honestly speaking will not contribute anything towards the labour, its something i know i will have to cover myself. I have been fighting with them for the past month now and just about managed to get the 60%, initially offering nothing, then 50% and now 60%. I really dont think they will contribute anymore (not going to stop me from pushing further though).

No, the car has not been tuned, been stock all its life.

TBH, the dealer has been very helpful in trying to push BMW, so credit due there. Need to call customer services again today and try another push for more, feel like im running out of things to say to them.

They have leverage on me, that i purchased the car privately! using that saying the repair is more than the price of purchase.

Have you spoken with your local dealer and told them BMW have offered 60%? Given they would do the work they may be more able to help with this new offer.

umz · 11-05-2019, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneExtra

Have you spoken with your local dealer and told them BMW have offered 60%? Given they would do the work they may be more able to help with this new offer.

Yes, the service/escalations team are in direct contact with the dealer, so i find out the contribution offers via the dealer.

The dealers have said that they will provide a lot of discount on the labour to help me out. They can only provide me with support on the labour and not parts. (I also inquired for a monthly payment plan, however, not something they offer).

OneExtra · 11-05-2019, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Yes, the service/escalations team are in direct contact with the dealer, so i find out the contribution offers via the dealer.

The dealers have said that they will provide a lot of discount on the labour to help me out. They can only provide me with support on the labour and not parts. (I also inquired for a monthly payment plan, however, not something they offer).

What an awful situation mate, you would probably have to take out a loan to cover the costs as you say but I suppose you need to decide if its worth getting the work done or cutting your losses and selling the car.

If the engine was done by BMW then you would have a new engine but the car would be worth only market value which I know you are aware.

Whats the cost of the work involved?

umz · 11-05-2019, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneExtra

What an awful situation mate, you would probably have to take out a loan to cover the costs as you say but I suppose you need to decide if its worth getting the work done or cutting your losses and selling the car.

If the engine was done by BMW then you would have a new engine but the car would be worth only market value which I know you are aware.

Whats the cost of the work involved?

Yes, worst possible situation anyone can be in, i do not wish this on anyone! I put all my funds into buying the car, hence struggling with repair costs, never would i have anticipated a cost as such in 5 days of ownership. I didn't even get the chance to get used to the car. Sour experience and has put me off M cars, ngl.

Yeh, I understand what they are valuing the car at, but honestly think they are low balling (understandable, they want to pay minimum).

Total is around £20K with labour.

OneExtra · 11-05-2019, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Yes, worst possible situation anyone can be in, i do not wish this on anyone! I put all my funds into buying the car, hence struggling with repair costs, never would i have anticipated a cost as such in 5 days of ownership. I didn't even get the chance to get used to the car. Sour experience and has put me off M cars, ngl.

Yeh, I understand what they are valuing the car at, but honestly think they are low balling (understandable, they want to pay minimum).

Total is around £20K with labour.

I think if it was me I would sell the car as it is and walk away from the whole situation. If you paid £25K for the car and you get maybe £10K for it then a £15K loss no matter how bad that is means the whole issue has gone away.

I think better to do that than spend £20K on a car you wont ever feel happy with that worth £25K

Keep us updated mate and again I am really sorry for this crap situation you are in.

umz · 11-05-2019, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneExtra

I think if it was me I would sell the car as it is and walk away from the whole situation. If you paid £25K for the car and you get maybe £10K for it then a £15K loss no matter how bad that is means the whole issue has gone away.

I think better to do that than spend £20K on a car you wont ever feel happy with that worth £25K

Keep us updated mate and again I am really sorry for this crap situation you are in.

Not your fault mate, really appreciate your support and advice.

I'm an optimistic person, so i am going to push BMW one last time. I may not get nothing, at least i know i tried!

I have been exploring my options and one was to just accept a loss on it, man up and move on!

If nothing comes of this, then i think its make or break for M power cars for me, unfortunately, i love them and this is the first one i have actually owned! sad!

thanks once again!

technician117 · 11-05-2019, 06:57 AM

I guess if you don't plan to keep the car for more than 3 years, you should weigh the financials. What is a '13 M5 with a new engine worth in the UK? I can't answer that as an American. What is it worth with a bad engine?

Take those values and calculate the losses. If the car is currently worth 10k and you owe 24k, then your loss is 14k. If the repaired car is worth 30k, and at that point you would have 44k into it, your still losing the same 14k (if you sold it). If you keep it, the miles you put on will no doubt lower the resale value but you're also going to get enjoyment out of it.

I would confirm, but if you have BMW install a new engine, it comes with a warranty. This should give you peace of mind on the base engine not costing you out of pocket a second time. It's unfortunate but these engines do have problems for seemingly no reason.

If it was me, I'd be keeping the car for enough time/miles to make it worth the repair if I could afford the repair. If you can't afford the repair, your options may be limited.

Good luck

umz · 11-05-2019, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

I guess if you don't plan to keep the car for more than 3 years, you should weigh the financials. What is a '13 M5 with a new engine worth in the UK? I can't answer that as an American. What is it worth with a bad engine?

Take those values and calculate the losses. If the car is currently worth 10k and you owe 24k, then your loss is 14k. If the repaired car is worth 30k, and at that point you would have 44k into it, your still losing the same 14k (if you sold it). If you keep it, the miles you put on will no doubt lower the resale value but you're also going to get enjoyment out of it.

I would confirm, but if you have BMW install a new engine, it comes with a warranty. This should give you peace of mind on the base engine not costing you out of pocket a second time. It's unfortunate but these engines do have problems for seemingly no reason.

If it was me, I'd be keeping the car for enough time/miles to make it worth the repair if I could afford the repair. If you can't afford the repair, your options may be limited.

Good luck

Thank you bro.

Exactly, its weighing it all up. If i put in 14 or lose 14, its the same loss from a monetary perspective, however if i put in, ill have something at the end of it and will for sure keep it as long as i possibly can.

thanks, ill keep you guys posted. Chasing up BMW this afternoon for another push!

Dwaynos · 11-05-2019, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Thank you bro.

Exactly, its weighing it all up. If i put in 14 or lose 14, its the same loss from a monetary perspective, however if i put in, ill have something at the end of it and will for sure keep it as long as i possibly can.

thanks, ill keep you guys posted. Chasing up BMW this afternoon for another push!

Hope this all works out for you. Keep pushing them for the best deal. Unfortunately this is just another one to add to the list, despite the belief that "bearings aren't a problem on the s63"

Good luck

M5Rick · 11-05-2019, 12:50 PM

There is another option if you should yourself be mechanically minded with someone else and a large warm garage with pit, rebuild it yourself.A lot of work stripping it down though bit by bit you'd spend a fraction of 20k rebuilding it bit by bit using BMW's offer for reduced price components.Not easy but just a thought.

E93M3ofSFL · 11-05-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Quote:

Originally Posted by C320

Really sorry to hear this and absolutely gutted for you too.

1. I recall you said you bought it privately - how long did the previous owner have the car for?
2. How old is the car?
3. When and where was the last service carried out?

33k miles is still reasonably low if it's over 3 years old. If it was just outside the manufacturers warranty and serviced at the correct intervals by BMW dealerships (including having the running in service performed on time) I'd suggest trying BMW to see if they may help in any way with a goodwill claim. Not a great deal to lose, other than some diagnostic time - surely it doesn't hurt to have a second opinion?

Sadly buying a car privately is one of the riskiest ways to buy an expensive car. What was the private seller like? Did everything seem legit, in terms of where they lived, the details on the logbook, what car they were buying next?

Try putting their phone number into google to see if they are advertising any other cars. Or do an AutoTrader search using their post code and cars within 1 mile. Do any of the cars have photos taken in the same spot as your car?
It's a really long shot but if you find they're advertising other cars and are an 'at home trader' you may possibly be able to get trading standards involved.

The only other option, other than breaking it is to look at a reconditioned engine. I've seen some sellers on eBay advertise them for about 10k fitted. Yes it's a lot of cash and you probably won't be able to get a warranty on the car after it but it may mean you lose less money.

All the best, hope you manage to get this sorted or recoup more of what you put in.

Thank you for your response.

1. Previous owner had the car for 3 years
2. Its a 63 plate - 2013
3. Last service was at 26K or 28K iirc (car was showing the next service is due in 1400 miles)

Need to re-look the paperwork, not exactly sure where the last service was carried out. Tbh, i dont think BMW would even help, they were reluctant to talk to me when i asked for their support in the first instance.

You are right about the risk of buying privately, this guy was legit, seen his home, even went in. no other cars, he wanted a C63 next.

I have thought about a reconditioned engine, however the same risk applies. it could go anytime, you dont know how well looked after it is etc.

It is what it is i guess. Just bad luck i guess.

What are prices of Non-Runner M5's. I mean, mine is in pristine condition par it not running obviously...:|

Sorry to hear this story ... as I read the first post I knew what was coming ... I am no expert but my engine seized and same story , car was running normal up until that moment ... rear wheels did not locked ... couldn't get it into neutral ...

I am going to go get my car from Troy Jeup up in Michigan this Friday ... will drive it back to Miami Beach ... will post my experience once I get back ... wish me luck

umz · 11-06-2019, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

There is another option if you should yourself be mechanically minded with someone else and a large warm garage with pit, rebuild it yourself.A lot of work stripping it down though bit by bit you'd spend a fraction of 20k rebuilding it bit by bit using BMW's offer for reduced price components.Not easy but just a thought.

Thank you all for your responses.

Tbh im not that technically minded that I would be able to rebuild the engine myself and with work and kids etc, i do not have the time to be able to do that sort of work.

Im hoping i get some "good" news back from BMW, i chased them up yesterday again for another push, awaiting a response, hopefully hear something back today.

Will make a decision off the back of their response, whatever it may be...

umz · 11-07-2019, 03:22 AM

Hi guys,

So BMW returned with an email late last night. They said they will not be reviewing the claim any further due to the circumstances around purchasing the car and they cannot provide any further support. They also mentioned that their contribution is a fair one (tbh it was, considering they didnt have to offer anything).

The end of the road I guess.

M5Rick · 11-07-2019, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Hi guys,

So BMW returned with an email late last night. They said they will not be reviewing the claim any further due to the circumstances around purchasing the car and they cannot provide any further support. They also mentioned that their contribution is a fair one (tbh it was, considering they didnt have to offer anything).

The end of the road I guess.

Sorry to hear that mate,If you only knew some garage or maybe someone on here who's worked on these engines would chime in.If you say whereabouts you are based.. you never know.

umz · 11-07-2019, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Sorry to hear that mate,If you only knew some garage or maybe someone on here who's worked on these engines would chime in.If you say whereabouts you are based.. you never know.

Yeh, its sad! More so that i didn't even really get to drive/get a proper feel for the car. I guess it is what it is!

Im from Peterborough. There is a german engine specialist near the outskirts of boro, however after explaining the issue he provided an estimate near to the £16K mark.

If there is anyone here that can help in anyway, i would appreciate you getting in contact.

thank you.

luv135i · 11-07-2019, 08:57 AM

You could always see if GHASSAN ships their rebuilt engines overseas. They were right at 10k last time i checked. With a good Indy you could probably be all in for no more than 14-15k. Not sure if this works out better than paying BMW prices with a 60% discount on parts basically.

Dwaynos · 11-07-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

Yeh, its sad! More so that i didn't even really get to drive/get a proper feel for the car. I guess it is what it is!

Im from Peterborough. There is a german engine specialist near the outskirts of boro, however after explaining the issue he provided an estimate near to the £16K mark.

If there is anyone here that can help in anyway, i would appreciate you getting in contact.

thank you.

Depending on how bad the crank is you could have it re-ground and use oversize bearings. You would need a new rod aswell (assuming that it is a rod bearing that spun and not a main). Then you have the issue of swarf in the engine, a rebuild would be a required just to clean it. Then you would need a replacement oil cooler.

This job could be done on the cheap, depending on crank damage, if one were to take on the task themselves then could be done for around £1k-2k. I know I already mentioned that you don't have the ability nor the time.

umz · 11-08-2019, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaynos

Depending on how bad the crank is you could have it re-ground and use oversize bearings. You would need a new rod aswell (assuming that it is a rod bearing that spun and not a main). Then you have the issue of swarf in the engine, a rebuild would be a required just to clean it. Then you would need a replacement oil cooler.

This job could be done on the cheap, depending on crank damage, if one were to take on the task themselves then could be done for around £1k-2k. I know I already mentioned that you don't have the ability nor the time.

That's it, I don't know how bad the damage is internally. I wouldn't be able to tell if i was to look inside, hence the need for someone that knows about the mechanical side of things. Its a perfect opportunity for them to make money, so hard to believe what people have to say sometimes.

I'm still looking around for any specialists on these cars, but not really having much luck.

Dwaynos · 11-08-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umz

That's it, I don't know how bad the damage is internally. I wouldn't be able to tell if i was to look inside, hence the need for someone that knows about the mechanical side of things. Its a perfect opportunity for them to make money, so hard to believe what people have to say sometimes.

I'm still looking around for any specialists on these cars, but not really having much luck.

You would need a machinist to measure the crank to see how much needs grinding off. Then they will know what size bearings you need and if its possible, you can only take so much off.

You will be hard pushed to find someone to carry out this rebuild without taking advantage because it's an M5.

Have a look on Ebay, people are supplying and fitting these engines for around 10k. They obviously keep your old engine to rebuild. (I know 10k is a lot of money) i personally would be stumped at a bill like this.

11-05-2019, 03:14 AM	#45
umz Private First Class 75 Rep 104 Posts Drives: BMW M5 F10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	UPDATE!!! Hi all, It’s been a while since I last posted, it’s been a tough month to say the least. So an update. I took the car to a dealership for diagnostics and they stripped the engine back. Confirmed that the Crank Shaft Bearing spun causing internal damage to the engine (more than one component), as a result, swarf travelling through the engine, so concluded that an engine replacement is required. As some of you already know, the car was purchased privately, only has 33k on the clock and full BMWSH. Unfortunately has no warranty (did not even get the chance to add warranty, owned the car for like 5 days and about 80 miles). I raised this with customer services and kept on pushing; they have come from zero to 60% contribution on parts only. This brings the bill shy of £20k (need to think of labour costs too). Do not get me wrong, I am not unappreciative, as BMW do not have to offer anything and are not legally obliged to either, I am just in a position where I just simply cannot afford to pay that, I mean I purchased the car for £24k. I understand that these cars are expensive to run/maintain, but would never anticipate something like this within 5 days of ownership, I threw all my money at it to buy it I’m an optimistic person, so trying to push and request for further support. BMW have come from Zero –60%, I’m hoping they can push the offer to 80%, that will put me in a position to be able to kind of afford the repair! These cars should not seize at 33K. Not going down without a fight! (Not much of a leg to stand on to be fair). I now need to make preparations if BMW are to say NO and that’s that! This has been ongoing with BMW for a month now! Options: What are my options moving forward? Is this it? I only get to own/drive an M5 for 5 days? Gutted is an understatement! but I guess I will have to bite the bullet, accept the loss and just move on and steer way clear of M Power cars in the future. Just a few questions as I am currently exploring different options: 1. The BMW senior technician mentioned that one bearing spun and there is swarf that has travelled the engine, hence the need for a replacement. Is there hope in rebuilding, is this possible considering the damage explained? Who can actually do this work? In addition, my fear here is, what will it cost? 2. My M5 is a 2013 (Sept 2013), facelift and has 33K on the clock. Bodywork and interior are very clean. How much would these sell with a seized engine? Apologies for the long post guys! Thanks in advance.
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11-05-2019, 03:21 AM	#46
OneExtra Lieutenant Colonel 811 Rep 1,847 Posts Drives: None Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: England iTrader: (0)	I would push for BMW to cover the labour as well as the parts and also ask about a warranty after the work has been completed, the fact that they are offering a contribution at all suggests that the are aware of a possible issue. I cannot remember but has the car been tuned ever before or are there signs of any mods no matter how small? If BMW didnt have to pay anything then they wouldnt the fact they have offered something shows that its all still on the table, you need to go and see your local BMW main dealer and get them to work with you on this as they can be very helpful and have a good working relationship with BMW Head Office
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-05-2019, 06:57 AM	#54
technician117 Captain 252 Rep 606 Posts Drives: 2000 M5, 2001 M5, 2013 M5 6MT Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Buffalo iTrader: (1) Garage List 1990 BMW M5 [0.00] 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00]	I guess if you don't plan to keep the car for more than 3 years, you should weigh the financials. What is a '13 M5 with a new engine worth in the UK? I can't answer that as an American. What is it worth with a bad engine? Take those values and calculate the losses. If the car is currently worth 10k and you owe 24k, then your loss is 14k. If the repaired car is worth 30k, and at that point you would have 44k into it, your still losing the same 14k (if you sold it). If you keep it, the miles you put on will no doubt lower the resale value but you're also going to get enjoyment out of it. I would confirm, but if you have BMW install a new engine, it comes with a warranty. This should give you peace of mind on the base engine not costing you out of pocket a second time. It's unfortunate but these engines do have problems for seemingly no reason. If it was me, I'd be keeping the car for enough time/miles to make it worth the repair if I could afford the repair. If you can't afford the repair, your options may be limited. Good luck
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11-05-2019, 12:50 PM	#57
M5Rick General 60842 Rep 19,778 Posts Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Southern England iTrader: (0)	There is another option if you should yourself be mechanically minded with someone else and a large warm garage with pit, rebuild it yourself.A lot of work stripping it down though bit by bit you'd spend a fraction of 20k rebuilding it bit by bit using BMW's offer for reduced price components.Not easy but just a thought.
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11-07-2019, 03:22 AM	#60
umz Private First Class 75 Rep 104 Posts Drives: BMW M5 F10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	New update Hi guys, So BMW returned with an email late last night. They said they will not be reviewing the claim any further due to the circumstances around purchasing the car and they cannot provide any further support. They also mentioned that their contribution is a fair one (tbh it was, considering they didnt have to offer anything). The end of the road I guess.
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11-07-2019, 08:57 AM	#63
luv135i Major 60 Rep 1,073 Posts Drives: White Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: GA iTrader: (0)	You could always see if GHASSAN ships their rebuilt engines overseas. They were right at 10k last time i checked. With a good Indy you could probably be all in for no more than 14-15k. Not sure if this works out better than paying BMW prices with a 60% discount on parts basically.
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