Amazon Basics VS Liqui Moli ??

[G-M5]

Saw this video. Interesting.

[AirBull]

Look up Ravenol, the Amazon basics oil is nothing special. I like the ravenol VST 5w40.

[AddyDaddy]

Interesting
Going to Indy shop tomorrow for oil change. Not due for 5k miles but don't feel it's good to go 15k without oil change. They only carry liquidMolly since it's actually fully synthetic and not a blend like a lot of them including bmw's oil.

[Dwaynos]

Originally Posted by AddyDaddy

Interesting
Going to Indy shop tomorrow for oil change. Not due for 5k miles but don't feel it's good to go 15k without oil change. They only carry liquidMolly since it's actually fully synthetic and not a blend like a lot of them including bmw's oil.

I agree, I change mine every 5k and use castrol edge titanium 0w30.

[mrtt]

Stick with Liqui Moly 5W-40.

[Ickdeep]

Originally Posted by mrtt

Stick with Liqui Moly 5W-40.

Same

[M5Rick]

Looks to me like Amazon basics oil floored LM
Would like to see a comparison with Edge 0-30.

[Dwaynos]

I stick with reputable manufacturers regardless of tests etc.

[M5Rick]

What is known is that Edge with titanium FST reduces friction by 15% than the same one without it which for an M5 engine must be good.It surely takes more than a fancy can sticker to choose an oil which is right for you.

[Dwaynos]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

What is known is that Edge with titanium FST reduces friction by 15% than the same one without it which for an M5 engine must be good.It surely takes more than a fancy can sticker to choose an oil which is right for you.

The castrol edge is the brand available at my local motor factors that isn't their own. I also know that Castrol edge titanium 0w30 exceeds all the specs and is recommended for my climate. Fancy can or no fancy can I wouldn't gamble an engine on cheap oil. I get my 4l castrol for £32 ish each when on offer. If another reputable brand that met or exceeded the specs was available I may buy that. It's a piece of mind for me. Some people on this forum have money to burn, I do not however. If my engine blew I would have no car. Taking additional precautions makes sense to me, that's why I change my oil every 5k.

[AirBull]

Not a completely useless test in the video, but as he disclaims, he's not using ASTM tests procedures or equipment. Still, the Amazon oil fared better than I was have thought.

The best indicator of the quality of motor oil is what most companies will never tell you, (or least in much detail,) and that is the what base stock they use as the foundation of their oil. The reason for this is three-fold: obvious, 1) better base stocks cost more money, 2) nobody is going to tell you exactly what they use in their oil, and 3) let's be honest, most people don't know enough about motor oil to even keep up in a conversation should the oil companies begin to start sharing more details. (Ex. Mobil1 Annual Protection - instead of breaking down and telling you what makes that oil better, they just try and tell you that you don't have to change your oil as often.)

Even oils in the same product line will vary depending upon viscosity. I've been in and out of the oil forums (Bob is the Oil Guy, or BITOG) for years and have read countless UOA and VOA's, and for me, when I come across an oil product sheet and they don't list any and or very many details as to the specs of their oil, I say to myself "and I'm supposed to just take their word" that their oil is better than the other guys and that it will be good for my motor?

I used to use Liqui-Moly in my previous E39 M5 that I had 6 years ago, and I liked the Made in Germany notion, but as I have learned more about motor oil, I'm not as big of as a fan. For the most part, however, I would use Mobil1 Full Synthetic in my other vehicles (Corvette) in large part because it was quality oil that could be had relatively easily, and inexpensively, at Wal-Mart. The Mobil1 ESP required for modern Diesels DPF's is not as easy to get, but with the internet, it was still a top-oil that could be had reasonably well. We all know that BMW dumped Castrol for SOPUS, or Shell Lubricants Division, a few years back, and the fact is their oils using a Gas-To-Liquid, or GTL, (Natural Gas) base stock are in fact, some really, really good motor oils. Since Shell owns Pennzoil, FCA (MOPAR) uses Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40 in their SRT motors (Corvette has now since changed to 0w-40 viscosity, as well,) and if you wanted to use a 5w-40 viscosity in our S63 motors that many wise folks have caught onto, Pennzoil has a Platinum Euro 5w-40 that is factory fill in Ferrari and supposedly has a very good NOACK of around 6.8, but they won't publish that figure in their product information (this figure supposedly comes from interviews in passing at trade shows with SOPUS folks.) This is the stuff that comes with a Ferrari logo on it and can only be had in 1qt bottles on it; not as easy to find, although I think you can get it shipped to your door via Wal-Mart.com, (just not in the stores,) for reasonable prices. MOTUL also makes a very good 5w-40, their 8100 X-cess, but its Noack is not published.

Some of the best motor oil specs that I have seen to date, is this Ravenol product out of Germany. Ravenol's USVO is something comparable to what Castol claims their "Titanium Edge" provides, i.e. better friction values.
https://www.ravenol.de/fileadmin/con...sentation_.pdf

The Ravenol 5w-40 VollSynth Turbo, or VST, has some of the best specs out there of anyone willing to publish them, in the areas you want in a motor like our S63: Direct Injection with TWO twin turbos. Superior pour and flashpoints, which is a testament to their Polyalphaolefin, (PAO,) base stocks, and a very low NOACK.

For those of us running an F10 M5 and it's S63B44T0 motor utilizing Turbo-Valvetronic Direct Injection (TVDI), the Noack is perhaps one of the most important metrics that we can use when trying to select which motor oil to use. The Noack volatility test measures the evaporation loss of (in this case,) motor oil, in high-temperatures, utilizing ASTM D5800. The lower the Noack the better. This test is a very important metric for use in a car with both DI and a turbocharger, (let alone two of them,) as you don't want oil to burn off which turns to carbon build up, clogging up your intake valves (doesn't burn off like port injection motors,) or plugging up (or coking) your turbochargers.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...sae-5w-40.html

There are many good oils out there and chances are if you're changing your oil regularly (5k miles or ONE YEAR,) the oil isn't going to kill your car. However, if you choose the wrong oil, you very well could be doing more harm than good to a very expensive motor.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by AirBull

Not a completely useless test in the video, but as he disclaims, he's not using ASTM tests procedures or equipment. Still, the Amazon oil fared better than I was have thought.

The best indicator of the quality of motor oil is what most companies will never tell you, (or least in much detail,) and that is the what base stock they use as the foundation of their oil. The reason for this is three-fold: obvious, 1) better base stocks cost more money, 2) nobody is going to tell you exactly what they use in their oil, and 3) let's be honest, most people don't know enough about motor oil to even keep up in a conversation should the oil companies begin to start sharing more details. (Ex. Mobil1 Annual Protection - instead of breaking down and telling you what makes that oil better, they just try and tell you that you don't have to change your oil as often.)

Even oils in the same product line will vary depending upon viscosity. I've been in and out of the oil forums (Bob is the Oil Guy, or BITOG) for years and have read countless UOA and VOA's, and for me, when I come across an oil product sheet and they don't list any and or very many details as to the specs of their oil, I say to myself "and I'm supposed to just take their word" that their oil is better than the other guys and that it will be good for my motor?

I used to use Liqui-Moly in my previous E39 M5 that I had 6 years ago, and I liked the Made in Germany notion, but as I have learned more about motor oil, I'm not as big of as a fan. For the most part, however, I would use Mobil1 Full Synthetic in my other vehicles (Corvette) in large part because it was quality oil that could be had relatively easily, and inexpensively, at Wal-Mart. The Mobil1 ESP required for modern Diesels DPF's is not as easy to get, but with the internet, it was still a top-oil that could be had reasonably well. We all know that BMW dumped Castrol for SOPUS, or Shell Lubricants Division, a few years back, and the fact is their oils using a Gas-To-Liquid, or GTL, (Natural Gas) base stock are in fact, some really, really good motor oils. Since Shell owns Pennzoil, FCA (MOPAR) uses Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40 in their SRT motors (Corvette has now since changed to 0w-40 viscosity, as well,) and if you wanted to use a 5w-40 viscosity in our S63 motors that many wise folks have caught onto, Pennzoil has a Platinum Euro 5w-40 that is factory fill in Ferrari and supposedly has a very good NOACK of around 6.8, but they won't publish that figure in their product information (this figure supposedly comes from interviews in passing at trade shows with SOPUS folks.) This is the stuff that comes with a Ferrari logo on it and can only be had in 1qt bottles on it; not as easy to find, although I think you can get it shipped to your door via Wal-Mart.com, (just not in the stores,) for reasonable prices. MOTUL also makes a very good 5w-40, their 8100 X-cess, but its Noack is not published.

Some of the best motor oil specs that I have seen to date, is this Ravenol product out of Germany. Ravenol's USVO is something comparable to what Castol claims their "Titanium Edge" provides, i.e. better friction values.
https://www.ravenol.de/fileadmin/con...sentation_.pdf

The Ravenol 5w-40 VollSynth Turbo, or VST, has some of the best specs out there of anyone willing to publish them, in the areas you want in a motor like our S63: Direct Injection with TWO twin turbos. Superior pour and flashpoints, which is a testament to their Polyalphaolefin, (PAO,) base stocks, and a very low NOACK.

For those of us running an F10 M5 and it's S63B44T0 motor utilizing Turbo-Valvetronic Direct Injection (TVDI), the Noack is perhaps one of the most important metrics that we can use when trying to select which motor oil to use. The Noack volatility test measures the evaporation loss of (in this case,) motor oil, in high-temperatures, utilizing ASTM D5800. The lower the Noack the better. This test is a very important metric for use in a car with both DI and a turbocharger, (let alone two of them,) as you don't want oil to burn off which turns to carbon build up, clogging up your intake valves (doesn't burn off like port injection motors,) or plugging up (or coking) your turbochargers.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...sae-5w-40.html

There are many good oils out there and chances are if you're changing your oil regularly (5k miles or ONE YEAR,) the oil isn't going to kill your car. However, if you choose the wrong oil, you very well could be doing more harm than good to a very expensive motor.

One of the best reviews I've read on oil and meets BMW 01 spec.

[BeachM5nster]

a guy with ties to bmw in munich and their engineers and worked on the porsche 962 team in the 80's and is a supercup champ etc etc put me on luquimoly 10w-60.. ill trust him

i also learned why bmw does the 10k mile oil service
1) money- with free service warranty plans they include with new cars, changing the oil 1/3 of as many times saves a lot of money
2) it makes ppl think wow these are really good cars
3) it makes ppl jump to a newer one when problems show up as they will showup sooner when youre only getting services at 10,000 mile intervals

-so its marketing ploys and money ..

change your oil every 3k miles or sooner if you see fit boys

[G-M5]

Originally Posted by BeachM5nster

a guy with ties to bmw in munich and their engineers and worked on the porsche 962 team in the 80's and is a supercup champ etc etc put me on luquimoly 10w-60.. ill trust him

i also learned why bmw does the 10k mile oil service
1) money- with free service warranty plans they include with new cars, changing the oil 1/3 of as many times saves a lot of money
2) it makes ppl think wow these are really good cars
3) it makes ppl jump to a newer one when problems show up as they will showup sooner when youre only getting services at 10,000 mile intervals

-so its marketing ploys and money ..

change your oil every 3k miles or sooner if you see fit boys

Well said

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by BeachM5nster

a guy with ties to bmw in munich and their engineers and worked on the porsche 962 team in the 80's and is a supercup champ etc etc put me on luquimoly 10w-60.. ill trust him

i also learned why bmw does the 10k mile oil service
1) money- with free service warranty plans they include with new cars, changing the oil 1/3 of as many times saves a lot of money
2) it makes ppl think wow these are really good cars
3) it makes ppl jump to a newer one when problems show up as they will showup sooner when youre only getting services at 10,000 mile intervals

-so its marketing ploys and money ..

change your oil every 3k miles or sooner if you see fit boys

You might want to reconsider running 10w-60 in a Turbo-Valvetronic Direct Injection (TVDI) S63 in the F10 M5; that viscosity was more so intended for the older M engines without turbochargers like the S54, S62, S65, and S85.

BMW originally said 5w-30 in the US for the S63 when it debuted around 2012, but then changed to 0w-30 in 2015 with an emphasis on fuel economy being the prevailing factor when they changed over to Shell products. But, depending upon your climate, BMW actually says you can use 5w-30, 5w-40, 0w-30, or 0w-40, (but no 10w-60!) https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ine/1VnYpiUbyG

I'd run the BMW 5w-30 before I would their 0w-30, we know it is a very good GTL base stock with a very good Noack number courtesy of the PQIA test. http://pqiadata.org/BMW_5W30.html

If a dealer ever gave any M5 owner grief over not wanting to use BMW's Longlife-01 FE (for fuel economy) 0w-30 viscosity, you can kindly remind them that you already paid the gas guzzler tax on the vehicle and now you're more concerned about what's best for the motor as opposed to what is best for BMW's fuel economy ratings.

Liqui-Moly even says they recommend their Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10w-60 for BMW M-series cars without turbocharged engines.

While I would agree that the Liqui-Moly GT1 10w-60 is superior to Castrol's Edge 10w-60 product (pathetically low flash point of just 203 °C,) Ravenol has an even better product in their Racing product line RSS 10-60. It's based off a PAO base stock with special molybdenum and tungsten additives to reduce friction and wear. With comparable flashpoints, TBN, and volatility (Noack), the Ravenol RSS has a vastly superior shear stability with an HTHS of 5.8 mPа*s compared to the LM's 3.5, on top of a -54 °C pour point compared the LM's -36 °C.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...ae-10w-60.html

[BeachM5nster]

Originally Posted by AirBull

You might want to reconsider running 10w-60 in a Turbo-Valvetronic Direct Injection (TVDI) S63 in the F10 M5; that viscosity was more so intended for the older M engines without turbochargers like the S54, S62, S65, and S85.

BMW originally said 5w-30 in the US for the S63 when it debuted around 2012, but then changed to 0w-30 in 2015 with an emphasis on fuel economy being the prevailing factor when they changed over to Shell products. But, depending upon your climate, BMW actually says you can use 5w-30, 5w-40, 0w-30, or 0w-40, (but no 10w-60!) https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ine/1VnYpiUbyG

I'd run the BMW 5w-30 before I would their 0w-30, we know it is a very good GTL base stock with a very good Noack number courtesy of the PQIA test. http://pqiadata.org/BMW_5W30.html

If a dealer ever gave any M5 owner grief over not wanting to use BMW's Longlife-01 FE (for fuel economy) 0w-30 viscosity, you can kindly remind them that you already paid the gas guzzler tax on the vehicle and now you're more concerned about what's best for the motor as opposed to what is best for BMW's fuel economy ratings.

Liqui-Moly even says they recommend their Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10w-60 for BMW M-series cars without turbocharged engines.

While I would agree that the Liqui-Moly GT1 10w-60 is superior to Castrol's Edge 10w-60 product (pathetically low flash point of just 203 °C,) Ravenol has an even better product in their Racing product line RSS 10-60. It's based off a PAO base stock with special molybdenum and tungsten additives to reduce friction and wear. With comparable flashpoints, TBN, and volatility (Noack), the Ravenol RSS has a vastly superior shear stability with an HTHS of 5.8 mPа*s compared to the LM's 3.5, on top of a -54 °C pour point compared the LM's -36 °C.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...ae-10w-60.html

well if it makes any difference the shop is two hours away from where I live and I only got the oil change because it's better than running the same oil for 10,000 miles I believe. this oil will get changed in about 3000 miles as soon as I take it to the dealer and I have only 2500 miles left til an oil change and I'll get what they give me