Autobild Ultimate BMW M Model Track Melee - F10 M5 vs M3 vs 1M vs X6M vs E60 M5

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

Quite embarrassing that the 1M beat the M3. As someone who is looking into purchasing a new M3, this is giving me a great deal of pause.

The M3 is still damn good, and the 1M is too raw for some. But this sentiment does explain why BMW was reluctant to make a 1M. I like Evo Magazine's current little summary of the two cars at the back:

BMW M3: + Fends off all its talented new rivals - ...except the cheaper 1-series M. 5 stars

BMW 1 Series M Coupe: + Character, turbo pace and great looks - Could hinder BMW M3 sales... 5 stars

[W///]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Not really, as this test neither proves or disproves that the F10 has a "soul".....you have completely missed the point of what people mean by a "soul". The "soul" of the car has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH the numbers.....regardless of whether you agree with the argument that a car does or does not have a "soul" has NOTHING to do with the numbers.


Cheers,
e46e92

On paper, the 1M shouldn't have any soul either, would you agree? If we look at the numbers, it has way less hp but more tq than an M3. But when you look at the parts the car has, recycled M3 suspension, an N54 engine and almost no develop time, almost everyone (I'm sure you included) said the car has no character and shouldn't even be considered an M car.

Yet here it is, praised by car journalists everywhere, taking on a Porsche Cayman S (that's about as soulful of a car you can get, in your definition) and beating them in comparos.

Again, if we want to keep using this stupid word soul without ever seeing the car, the 1M is the proof that you can't judge the book by its covers.

[M-Power111]

Originally Posted by bmwSC8

On paper, the 1M shouldn't have any soul either, would you agree? If we look at the numbers, it has way less hp but more tq than an M3. But when you look at the parts the car has, recycled M3 suspension, an N54 engine and almost no develop time, almost everyone (I'm sure you included) said the car has no character and shouldn't even be considered an M car.

Yet here it is, praised by car journalists everywhere, taking on a Porsche Cayman S (that's about as soulful of a car you can get, in your definition) and beating them in comparos.

Again, if we want to keep using this stupid word soul without ever seeing the car, the 1M is the proof that you can't judge the book by its covers.

[bry]

http://www.**************.com/test-d...racktimes.html


1:39,4 min - BMW M6 Competition Package
1:40,2 min - BMW 1M Coupé
1:40,5 min - BMW M3 Coupé DKG Competition Package
1:40,6 min - BMW M3 DKG Sedan Competition Package
1:43,7 min - BMW X6 M
1:43,7 min - BMW X5 M
1:43,8 min - BMW M5 (E60)

[Justin Spelman]

Originally Posted by bmwSC8

On paper, the 1M shouldn't have any soul either, would you agree? If we look at the numbers, it has way less hp but more tq than an M3. But when you look at the parts the car has, recycled M3 suspension, an N54 engine and almost no develop time, almost everyone (I'm sure you included) said the car has no character and shouldn't even be considered an M car.

Yet here it is, praised by car journalists everywhere, taking on a Porsche Cayman S (that's about as soulful of a car you can get, in your definition) and beating them in comparos.

Again, if we want to keep using this stupid word soul without ever seeing the car, the 1M is the proof that you can't judge the book by its covers.

From reading his posts here and on m3post basically he just thinks anything turbo and not naturally aspirated v8/v10 has no 'soul'

But like you said the 1M seems to have plenty of soul despite being a turbo 'parts bin' car.

Ppl with their NA powered BMWs should stop looking down their noses at the new gen of turbo BMWs and dismissing them outright as soul-less. Especially if they havent even driven them.

[Panchio]

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

Quite embarrassing that the 1M beat the M3. As someone who is looking into purchasing a new M3, this is giving me a great deal of pause.

from my own experience, once you start adding modifications to a M3 coupe or sedan, the cars is super amazing... The V8 engine sound, the handling, the fun factor is just awesome. Another thing to take in consideration... Any new ///M car will be slightly better that the previous model.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by mshab356

How in God's name was the 1M faster than the M3 DCT? Must have been a tight track, benefiting the 1M's torque advantage over the M3. Otherwise the M3's high end would have crushed it on a faster track. Props to the 1M, but am I missing something?

I found a nice video of the Sachsenring to show you what a lap looks like... in a M3 DCT!

[M-Power111]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I found a nice video of the Sachsenring to show you what a lap looks like... in a M3 DCT!

car sounds beautiful, thx for sharing.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

Exactly... The best example is a mazda miata. They're really not that fast, but they're a blast to drive. They have a ton of personality.

Very good example.....many would put the S2000 and there as well. It is also why the ///Mcoupe still holds a special plate in many track junkies' hearts

Cheers,
e46e92

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by bmwSC8

On paper, the 1M shouldn't have any soul either, would you agree? If we look at the numbers, it has way less hp but more tq than an M3. But when you look at the parts the car has, recycled M3 suspension, an N54 engine and almost no develop time, almost everyone (I'm sure you included) said the car has no character and shouldn't even be considered an M car.

Yet here it is, praised by car journalists everywhere, taking on a Porsche Cayman S (that's about as soulful of a car you can get, in your definition) and beating them in comparos.

Again, if we want to keep using this stupid word soul without ever seeing the car, the 1M is the proof that you can't judge the book by its covers.

Great point and argument. But I lived with the N54 motor for years, and while it is a great motor, especially when tuned, it doesn't have the pure excitement I got from the S85 & S65.

That being said, despite the engine choice, the 1///M is probably closer to the heritage of ///M as any current ///M offering as its fast, nimble and fun, though this is all just based on reviews and owners that I have met, I have not had the honor / privilege of driving one yet.

Cheers,
e46e92

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Justin Spelman

From reading his posts here and on m3post basically he just thinks anything turbo and not naturally aspirated v8/v10 has no 'soul'

But like you said the 1M seems to have plenty of soul despite being a turbo 'parts bin' car.

Ppl with their NA powered BMWs should stop looking down their noses at the new gen of turbo BMWs and dismissing them outright as soul-less. Especially if they havent even driven them.

Ah, but I have driven them, all of them except the 1M and obviously the ///M5, and owned some of them as well.

Btw, as you make your "eyes rolling smiling" when referencing what you think is my opinion perhaps you should take the time to read all of my posts. I have never had an issue with Fi cars, as every day drivers I think they are perfect. I have an issue with "low revving" FI cars because I feel it removes the character and "soul" of the ///M division.

I also remember the days, not that long ago, where BMW used to look its nose down on many of the other manufacturers' policy of "one engine fits all" and just plowing gobs of power into their cars. Doing a 180 never looks good.

Finally, my opinions are just that, and I have not been condescending and there really exists no reason to add the "rolling eyes" smile.....you could just say you don't agree with my opinion, or better yet as me to clarify my opinion if you in fact care (which is fine if you don't as I wouldn't care about my opinion either)

Cheers,
e46e92

[nlpamg]

Great results. The new M5 is looking better and better. But, I'm still not sold...

Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl

Claudia Hurtgen is a race car driver she drove the M5 only the rest were driven by automotive writers. Her talent has to be worth a couple of tenths at the very least. What do you think?

This is true. She is an amazing driver. I had the privilege of being driven in an M3 GT4 by her and was able to follow her line around a track in an M3 ZCP. I would like to see comparison tests with the same driver for each car.

Here's my video with her on the track:

You can see, she rubs her eye like she's doing nothing, while I'm feeling the g-forces, lol.

That being said, I'm still waiting on the M6/M6 Gran Coupe, but after seeing more and more of these, I may break down and just buy an F10 M5.

[ZED4Mjjl]

The 1M with so many M3 parts proves one thing: if the M3 weighed 350lbs less it would be the best of the best. Of course on an overall perspective it already is.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I also remember the days, not that long ago, where BMW used to look its nose down on many of the other manufacturers' policy of "one engine fits all" and just plowing gobs of power into their cars. Doing a 180 never looks good.

Cheers,
e46e92

I wouldn't consider the 1M a deviation from that philosophy (..despite the N54 being used in other BMW variants); it's the only ///M car with that motor. I, too, remember when BMW vehemently opposed F/I and ///M SAV's, but philosophies change and/or adapt when economic factors change.

[04cbm3]

Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl

The 1M with so many M3 parts proves one thing: if the M3 weighed 350lbs less it would be the best of the best. Of course on an overall perspective it already is.

+1

[hlmiii]

Originally Posted by mdyaman

+1, I agree. I don't see how a X5/6 M can beat a e60 M5.

Drive one/either of the X's.
They are amazing. Until you actually sit in the driver's seat and run them in almost exactly the same manner as their car counterparts, it's not possible to know and understand what they're capable of. Beasts, both of them.

Originally Posted by mdyaman

Wonder what the skill levels of the driver were, or if driver error was involved. but who knows, maybe the X5/6Ms are better around corners than the e60?

Don't know about the drivers' capabilities obviously, but I do know that the X's have much better torque at any range below 4,500 rpm and speed below ~35 mph. That alone will make up for the extra weight being dragged through corners.

The electronics - especially on the '6 - are a huge component. Like them or not they refuse to let the vehicle perform anything other than very close to the E60 and not too far away from the E9X M3.

I hate SUV's. And over a year later I can't get the X6M out of my mind.

[Nelrock]

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

Quite embarrassing that the 1M beat the M3. As someone who is looking into purchasing a new M3, this is giving me a great deal of pause.

Considering size and weight difference...4/10's of a second? The "pause" would only last long enough to hear that V8 growl.

[datbimmerdoe]

outstandin results on all counts!

[BMWM5NYC]

My only problem with this Comparo is that it is Misleading. The tests were not all done the same day with the same weather conditions. The E60M5 test results were from 2009 on a day with a damp track. If you read the entire article you can see they took test results from previously run tests.

[speedyjoe]

Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl

The 1M with so many M3 parts proves one thing: if the M3 weighed 350lbs less it would be the best of the best. Of course on an overall perspective it already is.

1

[speedyjoe]

[QUOTE=speedyjoe;11061192]

Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl

The 1M with so many M3 parts proves one thing: if the M3 weighed 350lbs less it would be the best of the best. Of course on an overall perspective it already is.

1

[Redadair]

I love my 1M, best car I have ever owned. I have been waiting for BMW to build a car like the 1M since owning my 1972 2002tii.

I looked at buying the E92 M3 since 08 and just couldn't fall in love with it. Too big, eats too much, no Direct Injection, too much Money!

1M's are just right in so many ways.