M5 / M6 Oil Pump Recall FAQ and Affected VIN List

[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by mdernst

Based on BMW's explanation of the problem:

The issue involves the engine oil pump. The pump driveshaft can separate from the pump rotor. If this were to occur, the engine could experience a sudden loss of oil pressure which could cause severe engine damage.

I'm not worried about any damage unless the "Low Oil Pressure" warning comes on. My interpretation of that is either the pump driveshaft is properly connected to the rotor and normal oil pressures are maintained or it separates and loses all oil pressure immediately (catastrophic failure of the pump) - there's no "in between" where you have "low" oil pressure.

Mike

Thx for a voice of reason.

[Bmill]

My car build was completed July 7 and is not on the list........ At least for now.

But BMW is on my list!

The side bolsters issue still has me fried, along with the fact that my car clearly sat outside in N.J. For the months of July and Augest.

[BarryB]

FYI when this pump "separates", there is no oil or smell or any other sign externally.

[Tourbillon]

Originally Posted by Bmill

My car build was completed July 7 and is not on the list........ At least for now.

But BMW is on my list!

The side bolsters issue still has me fried, along with the fact that my car clearly sat outside in N.J. For the months of July and Augest.

Mine was completed July 5 and surprised I haven't made the list, yet. I feel the same way. If my car was on the list and I was told I can't drive it for weeks, I would probably go trade it in over the weekend. Ridiculous!

[zzzmmm]

Originally Posted by jgarvish

I plan to refuse delivery of my ED M5 that is currently on the boat on the way over here. I'm not willing to put up with even the possibility that my engine may have already been damaged in the 600 miles I put on it in Europe. Anyone else feeling the same way?

When my dealer called me today I was ok with the news, I mean what can you do?. I have to wait for est 45 days for redelivery so whats another day in the shop when it arrives. It sucks but not huge.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I call BS on Q8 and Q14. (I'll let BarryB chime in on this one.)

Between this and the lack of adjustable side bolsters I have to say that I'm disappointed in BMW for the first time.

[roadmax]

Why not drive it???
Is the car under warranty?
You owners should not worry, the worst can happen is engine replacement.

[Tourbillon]

Originally Posted by roadmax

Why not drive it???
Is the car under warranty?
You owners should not worry, the worst can happen is engine replacement.

Doesn't sound so bad. Must do wonders for resale value!

[krispykreme]

I have been through the E60 vanos recall. First west coast car. But I had that car for 6 years and no issues.

While the resale value sucks- Sold for $34k with only 22k miles. I still liked my E60.

Its a car- I am not going to lose sleep over it. It would be nice for BMW to extend warranty on effected car to 100k miles. That is something they should do to loyal customers.

Cheers and try to make the best out of situation. Its still a great car when its right.

[cnicholson]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

I have been through the E60 vanos recall. First west coast car. But I had that car for 6 years and no issues.

Lucky you. I also had (still have) an early E60, had VANOS oil dump issue. And, after 6 years and only 50K miles, the VANOS high pressure lines failed. $3700. Maybe just bad luck, but I still think that the "fix" done outside the factory left the car less reliable than a model that rolled off the line with no issues from the get go.....

[roadmax]

BMW discovered this problem from quality control, how could they discover if the cars were already delivered and why they did not discover before releasing the cars.

Why are they not telling the truth: after customer complains that their m5 & M6 engines are no longer running we located the problem.

In order to prevent more engine replacements we beg our customers not drive until further notice.

It appears that new M5 & M6 owners are the latest BMW test drivers, for free.
Actually they are paying BMW for this.

[biglare]

Sux, but that's the price to pay to have the newest model out guys. Hope it gets resolved quickly so you fellas can get back to floggin those bad boys!

[loday]

Mine is not on the list either, July 5th completion.

[Stupenal]

Originally Posted by mdernst

Based on BMW's explanation of the problem:

The issue involves the engine oil pump. The pump driveshaft can separate from the pump rotor. If this were to occur, the engine could experience a sudden loss of oil pressure which could cause severe engine damage.

I'm not worried about any damage unless the "Low Oil Pressure" warning comes on. My interpretation of that is either the pump driveshaft is properly connected to the rotor and normal oil pressures are maintained or it separates and loses all oil pressure immediately (catastrophic failure of the pump) - there's no "in between" where you have "low" oil pressure.

Mike

Agreed. The e36 m3 also suffers from a similar oil pump fate, in the form of the oil pump nut backing off randomly. It's one of those things where no matter how much you baby the car, how hard you abuse it, when it happens it happens. Not a slow degradation/breakdown of the engine's internals. One minute the engine is 100%, the next it is 0. I would assume the m5's problems are of a similar vein.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by cnicholson

Lucky you. I also had (still have) an early E60, had VANOS oil dump issue. And, after 6 years and only 50K miles, the VANOS high pressure lines failed. $3700. Maybe just bad luck, but I still think that the "fix" done outside the factory left the car less reliable than a model that rolled off the line with no issues from the get go.....

I agree. That is why i think it would be a good gesture for BMW to extend our warranty to 7/100.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by racer10

I have just under 1000 miles on my new M5 , on the list and waited 5 months for this car. When I think of the ton of money BMW M divison spent hyping this car as opposed to an effective Q/C program I could strangle somebody. Now BMW M Division circles the wagons , and prepares their talking points and scripts for the automotive press and last but not least customers. And believe me those talking points will be carefully crafted and they will have gone through numerous revisions and reviews. The automotive press for their part will want no part of reporting this for fear of lost advertising revenue . But just think of how they are going to look when their mags come out next month covering the M5 intro into the U.S. from the vantage point of Laguna Seca . They are probadly scrambling . This has been one screwed up launch, not to mention the seats that were advertised for months as 20 way that turned to be 18 way. Sorry for my rant but I am getting madder by the hour.

I am sorry to hear of everyone's issues with this unfortunate event. What people are missing (not specifically you) is that this engine has been running around Europe for a year in consumer's hands- You guys did NOT "BETA" test this engine and it is not an inherent design flaw.

The truth is this is a supplier issue and not an M issue. Suppliers are responsible for QC of the parts they produce they are the one's producing them and have the ability to do so on the line. The contracts auto manufacturers have with suppliers are designed around this. How does one expect a manufacturer to check each part when they are really just in the business of assembling parts from different suppliers?

BMW and M in this case R&D a part with the supplier, come to a final vetted spec and then the part is to be made to that spec by the supplier. If the supplier fails to build to spec that falls on the supplier and that is the major issue with how people look at a recall.

If it was an inherent design flaw that the auto brand developed then by all means they should be the one to blame, but if it is a supplier not meeting QC established then there should be separation, such as this case.

Recently in the auto world there have been recalls that are supplier related and have damaged the image of the auto manufacturer unfortunately- personally this pisses me off because it is unwarranted.

As for the seat bolsters- I am not sure who said the side bolsters would be movable in the US. It sucks that they are not but since the launch of the F10 it was known that the bolsters won't be coming for years or until the LCI because there is a compliance issue with the side airbag or something like that. At the launch of the F10M last year in Spain they mentioned the bolsters would not be coming to the US- a similar thing happened with the X5/X6Ms as well- there was confusion.

I hope that everyone gets their cars back soon, they are amazing and I am sure it is tough to swallow this whole thing. BMW will make good on this, they always do but a lot of these cars I expect will be bought back and new cars ordered because the time line is too close for them to have them all lemoned, but that is just my take.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by jgarvish

I plan to refuse delivery of my ED M5 that is currently on the boat on the way over here. I'm not willing to put up with even the possibility that my engine may have already been damaged in the 600 miles I put on it in Europe. Anyone else feeling the same way?

Once you took delivery in Europe you took delivery, you can't "refuse" delivery in the US. The car is yours, it is under warranty and BMW is holding up their side of the contract. If they choose to offer you a buy back that is one thing but you really have little to argue- that is part of the ED contract terms and your delivery is your in-service date not your redelivery date. This all sucks but it will all work out and you will be enjoying your beast!

If your oil light did not come on there will be no damage. This is an all or nothing event. Either the pump separates from the shaft (supplier error) or it runs fine. That is why BMW is asking people to not drive- if it hasn't happened there will be no issues other than swapping the pump out as oil has been pumped as normal.

As part of QC when there is a catastrophic failure BMW tears the engine down and examines each part that would have caused the failure to be sure that this is a one off event and not a widespread issue. If they feel this problem is not a one off and a supplier error they look at the batch of parts and move on from there- this is what happened in this case.

More than likely they do not know the exact number of cars this has happened to as the statement was issued by BMWNA and they do not have access to world wide numbers, just their own.

I hope that all this gets sorted but I can say that my 08 M3 was part of a supplier caused recall involving the engine and it has over 60K very hard miles on it.

By looking at the VIN list- it also appears that BMWNA's own fleet- which were used at Leguna Seca for the launch and were abused but none of those cars had any failures (I was there and turned the final lap) or any indication of failure.

I am not sure who the supplier is but I am sure they are in a world of trouble and the cost of all these fixes, buy backs etc. will be placed on them.

[whiteM5]

yea some of you guys are a little out there, refuse the car, im killed on resale etc.

it's on warranty, beat on it, i see this as now a known issue and a freebie engine.

how would this in anyway impact resale? the porsche RMS is a simple has it been fixed or not? same with the e46 m3? they're fixing them problem solved.

and the anger at barry? seriously?? could've been anybody, the guy in Nice has his vacation ruined, if you're headed to ED and now have to change plans that's terrible and bmw should help you out, but if your car was already dropped off after ED with no problem, or you're still waiting to order the car, why are you talking? you'll have no impact...

[PrecisionP]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Once you took delivery in Europe you took delivery, you can't "refuse" delivery in the US. The car is yours, it is under warranty and BMW is holding up their side of the contract. If they choose to offer you a buy back that is one thing but you really have little to argue- that is part of the ED contract terms and your delivery is your in-service date not your redelivery date. This all sucks but it will all work out and you will be enjoying your beast!

If your oil light did not come on there will be no damage. This is an all or nothing event. Either the pump separates from the shaft (supplier error) or it runs fine. That is why BMW is asking people to not drive- if it hasn't happened there will be no issues other than swapping the pump out as oil has been pumped as normal.

As part of QC when there is a catastrophic failure BMW tears the engine down and examines each part that would have caused the failure to be sure that this is a one off event and not a widespread issue. If they feel this problem is not a one off and a supplier error they look at the batch of parts and move on from there- this is what happened in this case.

More than likely they do not know the exact number of cars this has happened to as the statement was issued by BMWNA and they do not have access to world wide numbers, just their own.

I hope that all this gets sorted but I can say that my 08 M3 was part of a supplier caused recall involving the engine and it has over 60K very hard miles on it.

By looking at the VIN list- it also appears that BMWNA's own fleet- which were used at Leguna Seca for the launch and were abused but none of those cars had any failures (I was there and turned the final lap) or any indication of failure.

I am not sure who the supplier is but I am sure they are in a world of trouble and the cost of all these fixes, buy backs etc. will be placed on them.

That supplier is hosed, big time.

[Pentium]

Bad news, I hate this shit when it happens!

[nybimmerfan]

I think everybody is getting too emotional over this issue. As with any production of complex systems that rely on parts from suppliers, there could be instances that the suppliers provided parts that may not pass QC -- remember such problems also happened to some planes made by Boeing and Airbus. The current oil pump problem is not a design flow but a parts supplier problem. I doubt that there is a car manufacturer (be it MBenz, Audi, Honda, Toyota, etc.) that check and put each part under test. Remember that a weak part in the entire system can break the system no matter how good the other parts are. I too am taking delivery of a new M5 and checking my VIN against the list did not find mine in there. BMW for its part is doing everything to correct the situation.

[ArtE36M3]

My car is included as well. I think BMW is handling it as well as they can. They are fixing it before we have a problem. I am bummed about it but I'm sure it will be fine. Most of us ordered this car site unseen. We had very high expectations. I still love the car and my ED experiencing was a once in a lifetime one. It is better to be temporarily inconvenienced with a repair than to have been disappointed by the entire car itself. It's still a remarkable automobile.