WTF: C&D picks the F10 M5 last, top spot goes to Audi S6, MB E63 AMG second

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

The Audi's interior is cheap. There is loads of plastic. Even the dash is plastic. The BMW's dash is leather if you have full leather. BMW's seats are more adjustable. The Audi interior is basically a spruced up cheapo interior.

Ummm...no. The Audi S6 and S7 interior is much better than Benz and BMW's.

Some pics of the new S6 and S7 interiors:

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Not really.

I was expecting to think this. After spending 10 minutes in it at the auto show, I was completely underwhelmed.

Odd, I did not have that same feeling at all. I was rather unimpressed by the new M5 interior, typical new BMW interior. The S6 completely blew me away, I had not seen pics prior to seeing it.

More than exceeded my expectations.

[stealth.pilot]

I think people are just impressed by the diamond pattern on the seats, and the single piece seats with built-in headrest which look lightweight and sports car like.

I admit, I do love the diamond shaped stitching too.

However, I see some issues:

1) Fixed non movable headrest. While the BMW headrest may not be as pretty, you can move it closer to your head thanks to the backrest pivot, and the butterfly design means it genuninely cradles your head allowing you to rest your head while driving. So BMW wins here - better function over form.

2) Dash is plastic, door panels are mostly plastic too. Look at the first 2 pictures you posted. Look at the dash. You see no hand stitching. You see a clearly moulded plastic shape. I have not seen a leather dash in any S6 or S7 picture posted online.

3) The cupholder compartment in front of the armrest is set against a piece of plastic trim. That area is very Toyota like to me. In the BMW the trim extends all the way from the AC panel to the armrest. Audi didn't extend the trim all the way, and left a plastic piece in between. Looks cheap to me.

4) Doors look cheap. the wedge shaped piece of trim in the corner looks like an afterthought. Reminds me of older Lexus models where they didn't want to have wood trim trim, and put a triangular piece in the corner as a token gesture.

5) Carbon Fiber Trim. I am among those who think carbon fiber trim looks cheap, and when I look in the Audi catalog, wood trim isn't an option.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by ucla95

Look I prefer the m5, but I think most unbiased reviewers would pick the Audi's interior and Nav technology over the M5.

It is hard for people to be unbiased, I understand people have their badge they support.

I will agree the Audi interior and navigation is better. The touchpad and google earth is very cool feature. The new Audi nav will trickle down to all models eventually.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I think people are just impressed by the diamond pattern on the seats, and the single piece seats with built-in headrest which look lightweight and sports car like.

I have been in both cars. The M5 most recently at a local M-event.

The Audi S6 I sat in looked and felt much more quality and special. The M5 was like my M3, unique from the base car, but nothing special.

The Audi also had a more solid feel, but just my personal opinion. I am usually very opened-minded when it comes to cars. I have mixed in a couple Audi's and Benz's, while owning mostly BMW's.

German car companies are killing it right now. I actually think Porsche has the best German interiors by far.

[puffysheep]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Ummm...no. The Audi S6 and S7 interior is much better than Benz and BMW's.

Some pics of the new S6 and S7 interiors:









Odd, I did not have that same feeling at all. I was rather unimpressed by the new M5 interior, typical new BMW interior. The S6 completely blew me away, I had not seen pics prior to seeing it.

More than exceeded my expectations.

OMG! That is the ugliest car interior I have ever seen.
It looks like a car my grand mother would ride in!
I know everyone has different opinions and tastes but this S6's interior gives comfy/soft looks than sporty/modern looks.

Quilted seats may give different looks than other car's but this reminds me of Channel bags!
Don't get me wrong, I think quilted looks on clothing and bags look great on women but certainly not on men.
I don't know about you guys but the new S6 seems to be geared towards women drivers... Perhaps that's what they were aiming for?
Sorry if I offended anyone but that's my honest opinion...

[LAKEOM5]

Needs a bigger shifter.


I'll take an M5 thanks.

[SleepTight]

This discussion has taken the same turn that all discussions of M5 competitors take on this board. I know it's an M5 board, but discussions of whether the S6 interior is better and/or whether the S6 is a better bargain are beside the point and everybody here knows it.

We are interested in buying M5s because we want the best, most advanced sports sedan in the world and we are willing to spend essentially whatever it takes to get that. Rather than wasting time taking pot shots at the S6, which I'm sure is a very nice car by the way, why don't we discuss why C&D is the only car magazine not to pick the M5 as a legitimate contender for best car on the planet. Particularly, when they rave about the M6 in the very same issue?

Oh, and for those of you who still read car magazines made out of dead trees, you might want to pick up this month's issue of Motor Trend. They give a rave review of the M5 and also have a half-page blurb on the E63 AMG. Suffice it to say, there's nobody at Motor Trend that would pick the E63 over the M5.

If I had to guess, I'd wager that the particular M5 that C&D reviewed had already been flogged for several months by numerous other journalists who drove the car like it was stolen. Wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification are what explain the brakes, steering and suspension issues C&D flagged.

BMW should invite C&D back for a drive in a different M5.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

If I had to guess, I'd wager that the particular M5 that C&D reviewed had already been flogged for several months by numerous other journalists who drove the car like it was stolen. Wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification are what explain the brakes, steering and suspension issues C&D flagged.

BMW should invite C&D back for a drive in a different M5.

+1

[mdh]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

If I had to guess, I'd wager that the particular M5 that C&D reviewed had already been flogged for several months by numerous other journalists who drove the car like it was stolen. Wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification are what explain the brakes, steering and suspension issues C&D flagged.

BMW should invite C&D back for a drive in a different M5.

Originally Posted by ucla95

+1

If anything, several months of driving should loosen up the engine and drivetrain, and the car should be better. We're talking about an M5 with only a few thousand miles on the clock at most for crying out loud!

Any car that has 'wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification' after only a few months of hard driving has something wrong with it. Possibly the brake pads could need replacing, but that would have been reflected in poor stopping distances, and they weren't. I'm sure the M5 isn't that poorly constructed, and if it is, that's not a good reflection on the car.

[jeff4598]

Is this a Lexus board? They put down the cars dynamics and most of you are defending the interior!

[TheBingoBalls]

I understand that there will be some media where the M5 is not going to always win but after reading the article, my problem isn't that it came last it's what they said about the M5 that is so much different than what others have said.

If there were small discrepancies, fine it's a matter of preference but to say the steering was awful and the the shifter? Really? If the shifter was such a problem, I don't see how they would give the M3 a win over the C63 AMG with everything else being so close.

[SleepTight]

Originally Posted by mdh

If anything, several months of driving should loosen up the engine and drivetrain, and the car should be better. We're talking about an M5 with only a few thousand miles on the clock at most for crying out loud!

Any car that has 'wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification' after only a few months of hard driving has something wrong with it. Possibly the brake pads could need replacing, but that would have been reflected in poor stopping distances, and they weren't. I'm sure the M5 isn't that poorly constructed, and if it is, that's not a good reflection on the car.

C&D had no complaints about the engine or drivetrain (apart from some indistinct verbiage about the shifter's complexity). The complaints were "steering, suspension and brakes" all things in which components can be rapidly worn down and knocked out of alignment after a few thousand miles of very hard driving.

Again, C&D had no similar complaints about the M6 which they tested in the same issue.

[s4awd]

I personally think both interiors are fine. My issue is with the M5's steering which other magazines have had issues with as well. If Mercs have better steering feel than M cars, then something is clearly wrong. The only thing keeping my interest in the M5 is the manual transmission. Def looking forward to that review.

[bimmerjph]

Car and Drive is out to prove that they aren't BMW fanboys so this is not surprising. Wait for the European Mags.

Originally Posted by SleepTight

Yet in the same issue they test a BMW M6 convertible. Same brakes, same steering, essentially identical suspension and the M6 'vert is more than two hundred pounds heavier:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...le-test-review



If I were BMW, I'd be pulling the C&D M5 test vehicle apart right now.

Top Gear (Magazine) did something similar. They praised the technology in the M5, but on the M6 supposedly not even Gates or Zuckerburg could understand it. They have the same tech, and ruffly the same control layout, why is it so different.

[Bimmernerd]

The C&D review is a bunch of crap IMO, their reviewers have lost whatever objectivity they once had...I have seen several European reviews in Mags that are way more trustworthy!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by puffysheep

Sorry if I offended anyone but that's my honest opinion...

No offense taken. I think the new S7 interior is the best sub-$80k interior money can buy and better than some $100k+ cars. Oh and their is other stitching options if you don't prefer the diamond look, like more subtle straight stitch. Cars are all personal taste. For example I think the new 6-series is one of ugliest cars on the road, but many here seem to drool all over it. The 6er GC is a great example of a woman's handbag interior, it is just off the charts ugly (mostly due to color choice): http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/...n-Coupe-11.jpg

[erio]

I'm a big fan of the M5 and I'm excited to sample the F10. However, for the previous generation cars, Motortrend, Car and Driver, and Automobilemag all chose the S6 over the M5 as well.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1j6OUrQOU

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...s/viewall.html

[sparkyg]

The S6 does not compare to the M5. Never has and its not the same car. This is a typical Consumer Report review when give the price of the S6 over the M5 the S6 wins.

The S6 interior and all of the details of materials do not compare to the M5. Zero.

Audi contunues to go cheap and reduce the costs of the materials and quality.

An well optioned A6 in Canada is fckn over $70k so the the S6 cost is completely fcked up. An optioned S4 is $67k so the price is a joke.

Then all of a sudden the cars are more equal and then the M5 shines.

I love how it shows the S6 price is $78k (est). So that doesn't include any tires or suspension eh, oh bummer, how much is that??

[erio]

Yes I never really considered them true competitors either, the same way the s5 isn't a competitor to the m3. As we all know these mags usually take the most comparable models from competitor brands and take price/value into consideration. I look forward to test driving both cars.

[nybimmerfan]

Just to put my two cents. I think it is a matter of opinion. Personally, I find the interior of the S6 tacky and the whole diamond pattern cheapens the car. I guess there are people who think that is great but then, it is their opinion.

[TexMark]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

This discussion has taken the same turn that all discussions of M5 competitors take on this board. I know it's an M5 board, but discussions of whether the S6 interior is better and/or whether the S6 is a better bargain are beside the point and everybody here knows it.

We are interested in buying M5s because we want the best, most advanced sports sedan in the world and we are willing to spend essentially whatever it takes to get that. Rather than wasting time taking pot shots at the S6, which I'm sure is a very nice car by the way, why don't we discuss why C&D is the only car magazine not to pick the M5 as a legitimate contender for best car on the planet. Particularly, when they rave about the M6 in the very same issue?

Oh, and for those of you who still read car magazines made out of dead trees, you might want to pick up this month's issue of Motor Trend. They give a rave review of the M5 and also have a half-page blurb on the E63 AMG. Suffice it to say, there's nobody at Motor Trend that would pick the E63 over the M5.

If I had to guess, I'd wager that the particular M5 that C&D reviewed had already been flogged for several months by numerous other journalists who drove the car like it was stolen. Wear and tear and parts drifting out of specification are what explain the brakes, steering and suspension issues C&D flagged.

BMW should invite C&D back for a drive in a different M5.

WELL said!!!!

[///M1]

Originally Posted by erio

I'm a big fan of the M5 and I'm excited to sample the F10. However, for the previous generation cars, Motortrend, Car and Driver, and Automobilemag all chose the S6 over the M5 as well.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1j6OUrQOU

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...s/viewall.html

Interesting to re-read all these comparos, 5 yrs later now.

What I find fairly amusing, is that the only time we in the US have been able to sample a true apples-to-apples comparo and test was when the 2003 E39 M5 was put against the E55 AMG vs. the Audi RS 6 (only yr Audi imported an RS 6 in the US), and the E39 M5 won all the major comparos despite being the oldest car (was its last yr in production) and most underpowered. Goes to show you why the E39 M5 still has iconic status within the M history books.