M5 Beating Gtr? Amazed!

[ColdList]

This whole post got ruined when Dave put on the heels.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Stock vs Stock with ALL conditions equal and rolling race where both cars start their push at the same time; yes the f10/13 should pull but not to a level of "walk" imho.

But like i said, conditions conditions conditions....

Originally Posted by Tylerstar

Agreed. I do think though The M will have an advantage as it approaches higher speeds.

actually it should do best in high end speeds due to its higher end power since its an V8

[greentrbo95gst]

The godzilla with couple bolt ons will be goooone

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by Tylerstar

Agreed. I do think though The M will have an advantage as it approaches higher speeds.

I agree with the top end power with an V8 vs. V6

[Boss330]

Gearing is also something to consider when comparing acceleration and top speed potential:

F10 M5:


Gear ratios (overall):

First Gear Ratio (:1) 4.806 (15.16)
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.593 (8.18)
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.701 (5.36)
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.277 (4.03)
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 1 (3.15)
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.844 (2.66)
Seventh Gear Ratio (:1) 0.671 (2.12)

Final drive ratio std: 3.154


GTR:

First Gear Ratio (:1) 4.06 (15,07)
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.30 (8.5137)
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.60 (5.9015)
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.25 (4.6176)
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00 (3.7037)
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.80 (2.9452)
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.70

Apart from 1st gear, the GTR has numerically higher effective gearing in each gear from 2nd to 6th, meaning better acceleration but lower top speed in each gear. In the GT Board video of the MHR M6 vs GTR Switzer 800 you can really hear that the GTR shifts earlier whereas the M6 has longer gearing.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

I agree with the top end power with an V8 vs. V6

If a 3,8 V6 makes 545hp at 6400rpm and a 4,4 V8 makes 545hp at 6400rpm, then they both have similar top end power... It's not the engine configuration that matters, it's the state of tune of the respective engines.

The M5 makes 560hp at 6-7000rpm and 680Nm at 1500-5750rpm
The GTR makes 545hp at 6400rpm and 628Nm at 3200–5800 rpm

Remember that the 2007-2011 GTR "only" made 485hp and 588Nm, so a comparison with an early GTR will be more favourable to the M6 than racing a 2012/2013 GTR...

[shahano]

I hate how people keep comparing this car to the M5. The beamer is better in every single way. 4 doors, more luxurious, more comfortable, faster in a straight line, RWD , Much more fun around corners, better engine, and just much prettier...
The most important in a car is FUN, and the M5 beat almost every car out there in that aspect. RWD, front engine, long wheelbase, huge power, and a fantastic electronically control limited slip diff....

I just can't get enough of it.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Gearing is also something to consider when comparing acceleration and top speed potential:

F10 M5:


Gear ratios (overall):

First Gear Ratio (:1) 4.806 (15.16)
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.593 (8.18)
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.701 (5.36)
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.277 (4.03)
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 1 (3.15)
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.844 (2.66)
Seventh Gear Ratio (:1) 0.671 (2.12)

Final drive ratio std: 3.154


GTR:

First Gear Ratio (:1) 4.06 (15,07)
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.30 (8.5137)
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.60 (5.9015)
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.25 (4.6176)
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00 (3.7037)
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.80 (2.9452)
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.70

Apart from 1st gear, the GTR has numerically higher effective gearing in each gear from 2nd to 6th, meaning better acceleration but lower top speed in each gear. In the GT Board video of the MHR M6 vs GTR Switzer 800 you can really hear that the GTR shifts earlier whereas the M6 has longer gearing.

This!!!!!!!!!!! and what boss330 also said about the power band...


it all depends on the where the power is in the rpm band.


And also lets not all forget about CoED at higher speeds- drag does count.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by shahano

I hate how people keep comparing this car to the M5. The beamer is better in every single way. 4 doors, more luxurious, more comfortable, faster in a straight line, RWD , Much more fun around corners, better engine, and just much prettier...
The most important in a car is FUN, and the M5 beat almost every car out there in that aspect. RWD, front engine, long wheelbase, huge power, and a fantastic electronically control limited slip diff....

I just can't get enough of it.

I agree that they are not natural rivals, but there have been many comparisons by magazines etc. Either the M5 or M6 vs a GTR. But I doubt that many buyers considering a M5 also considers a GTR (?).

BTW. The GTR has a top speed of 196MPH and the F10 M5 is 189MPH (delimited).

But, not everyone agrees that the M5 is more fun than the GTR though. In this comparison the GTR beats the M5 5:0...

[boots]

Yep the gtr black addition was fun to drive. In most cases more than the 5. But go 30 mph and stomp on the gtr and it will go no where. Stomp on the M5 and it will go. All these cars have good/ bad points to them. But we bought the m5 so that was the win for me.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I agree that they are not natural rivals, but there have been many comparisons by magazines etc. Either the M5 or M6 vs a GTR. But I doubt that many buyers considering a M5 also considers a GTR (?).

BTW. The GTR has a top speed of 196MPH and the F10 M5 is 189MPH (delimited).

But, not everyone agrees that the M5 is more fun than the GTR though. In this comparison the GTR beats the M5 5:0...

The 189mph "top speed" of the F10 M5 you are referring to is just an optional raised speed limiter over in Europe. I am not sure anyone aside from an M engineer knows the true drag limited top speed of an F10 M5.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Tom C

The 189mph "top speed" of the F10 M5 you are referring to is just an optional raised speed limiter over in Europe. I am not sure anyone aside from an M engineer knows the true drag limited top speed of an F10 M5.

And as such that top speed remains a theoretical top speed. No one is able, so far, to drive a F10 M5 over 189MPH... Meaning the GTR still has a higher real world top speed

[boots]

Would be nice if there were no limiter. Porsche is german and they don't put a limiter on theirs like merc, audi, and bmw. Sucks. I wonder what made the difference between the companies to decide on this.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by boots

Would be nice if there were no limiter. Porsche is german and they don't put a limiter on theirs like merc, audi, and bmw. Sucks. I wonder what made the difference between the companies to decide on this.

Isnt it a german manufacturers' gentlemans agreement? Sedans??

[boots]

I thought it was but I guess one company stood out. Hell even the vette don't have a limiter on it.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by Boss330

If a 3,8 V6 makes 545hp at 6400rpm and a 4,4 V8 makes 545hp at 6400rpm, then they both have similar top end power... It's not the engine configuration that matters, it's the state of tune of the respective engines.

The M5 makes 560hp at 6-7000rpm and 680Nm at 1500-5750rpm
The GTR makes 545hp at 6400rpm and 628Nm at 3200–5800 rpm

Remember that the 2007-2011 GTR "only" made 485hp and 588Nm, so a comparison with an early GTR will be more favourable to the M6 than racing a 2012/2013 GTR...

yeah I agree but as far as I know, those videos were of the newer GTR loosing. and I agree if it was prior of 2012 year then it make sense. But according to those years the GTR Was 3.4 or less 0-60mph car, then why still loosing to the m5 and m6.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by shahano

I hate how people keep comparing this car to the M5. The beamer is better in every single way. 4 doors, more luxurious, more comfortable, faster in a straight line, RWD , Much more fun around corners, better engine, and just much prettier...
The most important in a car is FUN, and the M5 beat almost every car out there in that aspect. RWD, front engine, long wheelbase, huge power, and a fantastic electronically control limited slip diff....

I just can't get enough of it.

I agree with you on most on what your saying, after all I have a LCI M5. but as terms as fun? GTR SOUNDS amazing and is a lot of fun. 545hp from a 3,8 litter engine quite amazing. I am not being bias.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by boots

Yep the gtr black addition was fun to drive. In most cases more than the 5. But go 30 mph and stomp on the gtr and it will go no where. Stomp on the M5 and it will go. All these cars have good/ bad points to them. But we bought the m5 so that was the win for me.

Well said

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by boots

I thought it was but I guess one company stood out. Hell even the vette don't have a limiter on it.

I know. corvettes are awesome though so understandable lol.

Originally Posted by boots

Would be nice if there were no limiter. Porsche is german and they don't put a limiter on theirs like merc, audi, and bmw. Sucks. I wonder what made the difference between the companies to decide on this.

I wish they did not have a limited

Originally Posted by Boss330

And as such that top speed remains a theoretical top speed. No one is able, so far, to drive a F10 M5 over 189MPH... Meaning the GTR still has a higher real world top speed

yeah real word because they stop the m5 at 189 in Europe not because it cannot go past that. after all the m3 was limited around that speed too. so technically it can go a lot faster if you take it off completely so in real word non stock you can make the m5 go faster than that. and the GTR as well I am sure. but stock for stock the gtr has a higher top speed due to the fact the manufactures allow too.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

yeah real word because they stop the m5 at 189 in Europe not because it cannot go past that. after all the m3 was limited around that speed too. so technically it can go a lot faster if you take it off completely so in real word non stock you can make the m5 go faster than that. and the GTR as well I am sure. but stock for stock the gtr has a higher top speed due to the fact the manufactures allow too.

As of today, not any of the tuners have been able to remove the top speed limiter on the F10 M5. Nor crack the ECU and do custom tunes for that matter...

[boots]

Originally Posted by Boss330

As of today, not any of the tuners have been able to remove the top speed limiter on the F10 M5. Nor crack the ECU and do custom tunes for that matter...

And this is very sad.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by Boss330

As of today, not any of the tuners have been able to remove the top speed limiter on the F10 M5. Nor crack the ECU and do custom tunes for that matter...

that's what I heard in my area iN San Diego. But I seen someone in the forums saying there M5 has 700hp.

Originally Posted by boots

And this is very sad.