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      05-25-2020, 06:20 PM   #1
AngryDog
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F10 reliability

Hi all,

I currently own an E60 M5 (9k miles on rebuilt engine), but I am looking to make the move into an F10. I am a bit concerned about the reliability, some posts say that a tune could likely result in a bent rod, or other such failure. It seems a bit odd to me as there are a few M5's on stock internals running 800 plus bhp in the UK, with one of them running 1000bhp.

I know the E60 raised the bar with reliability issues, but am I in for a world of pain with an F10 M5? I'd be looking at pre lci cars mainly, as low miles as possible, dct (we didn't get the manual) and no warranty as I'd not be buying from BMW.

I was planning on changing the injectors and rod bearings as a precaution anyway, but is there anything else I should be concerned about?
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      05-25-2020, 07:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryDog View Post
Hi all,

I currently own an E60 M5 (9k miles on rebuilt engine), but I am looking to make the move into an F10. I am a bit concerned about the reliability, some posts say that a tune could likely result in a bent rod, or other such failure. It seems a bit odd to me as there are a few M5's on stock internals running 800 plus bhp in the UK, with one of them running 1000bhp.

I know the E60 raised the bar with reliability issues, but am I in for a world of pain with an F10 M5? I'd be looking at pre lci cars mainly, as low miles as possible, dct (we didn't get the manual) and no warranty as I'd not be buying from BMW.

I was planning on changing the injectors and rod bearings as a precaution anyway, but is there anything else I should be concerned about?
E60 raised the bar with reliability? Compared to the F10 yes.

I was looking into an f10 as well. Coming from an e90 m3. If you cannot afford a rebuild, or spare engine. I probably wouldn’t do it.

The miles on the car don’t matter. As a matter of fact. Your probably better off with high miles, because if it lasted it probably has a good rotating assembly. And most likely has all maintenance (including injectors already replaced) Just do the rod bearings and you should be okay.
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      05-25-2020, 08:29 PM   #3
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The post 2013 engines are reliable. Most of the major problems are with (poorly) tuned engines. They are not cheap when maintenance is required beyond the routine stuff, but if you can afford the car you should be able to afford the routine maintenance and wear item costs. The S63T does not have a rod bearing problem (with above listed caveat)
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      05-25-2020, 08:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arucano View Post
The post 2013 engines are reliable. Most of the major problems are with (poorly) tuned engines. They are not cheap when maintenance is required beyond the routine stuff, but if you can afford the car you should be able to afford the routine maintenance and wear item costs. The S63T does not have a rod bearing problem (with above listed caveat)
This is good information. Thank you.

How hard is it to find one of these in a 6 speed manual?

That’s is my only preference

I just tried a couple m5s that I’m interested in realoem they are post 2014 and all day s63N. Maybe I can try ista to check the engine ?

Last edited by bmwpower603; 05-25-2020 at 08:44 PM..
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      05-25-2020, 09:25 PM   #5
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Overall you'll want to find a car that has a good service history and has been well taken care of. The most common issue that I've seen is turbo coolant lines failing but can be replaced easily. As for the tunes, you will want to make sure its been tuned by a proper tuning shop (there is a whole threads about this already). I'd highly recommend getting the car you want to buy inspected at a BMW dealer for a PPI (Private Purchase Inspection, it costs about $200 here in the states). From what I've seen, its very hard to find a 6 speed manual for these cars. But you could wait for one to pop up. I personally love the 7 speed DCT for how easy it is to use and how quick it shifts.
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      05-26-2020, 08:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickdeep View Post
I personally love the 7 speed DCT for how easy it is to use and how quick it shifts.
Having driven manuals every year but one since I was 16, I was initially nervous about how I'd like the DCT. I love it now.
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      05-26-2020, 08:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwpower603 View Post
E60 raised the bar with reliability? Compared to the F10 yes.

I was looking into an f10 as well. Coming from an e90 m3. If you cannot afford a rebuild, or spare engine. I probably wouldn’t do it.

The miles on the car don’t matter. As a matter of fact. Your probably better off with high miles, because if it lasted it probably has a good rotating assembly. And most likely has all maintenance (including injectors already replaced) Just do the rod bearings and you should be okay.
I meant unreliability

I managed to afford a rebuild on my E60 (there's the thick end of £15k I will never see again), whether or not I have the stomach to do it on an F10, not sure.

My E60 has less than 90k on it, given the finite life of turbo's etc, a lower miles one is more appealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arucano View Post
The post 2013 engines are reliable. Most of the major problems are with (poorly) tuned engines. They are not cheap when maintenance is required beyond the routine stuff, but if you can afford the car you should be able to afford the routine maintenance and wear item costs. The S63T does not have a rod bearing problem (with above listed caveat)
I've not struggled to maintain my E60 so I feel that I should be able to maintain an F10 fairly well. I have just seen posts about weak roads that can bend at standard power, which is a bit concerning if I am being honest.

I am hoping that my budget will stretch to a later car, but what is the issue with the pre 2013 cars?

I've read posts about the bearings as well, and for the small cost of having them and the injectors changed, it's worth it given the price of new cranks / engines etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickdeep View Post
Overall you'll want to find a car that has a good service history and has been well taken care of. The most common issue that I've seen is turbo coolant lines failing but can be replaced easily. As for the tunes, you will want to make sure its been tuned by a proper tuning shop (there is a whole threads about this already). I'd highly recommend getting the car you want to buy inspected at a BMW dealer for a PPI (Private Purchase Inspection, it costs about $200 here in the states). From what I've seen, its very hard to find a 6 speed manual for these cars. But you could wait for one to pop up. I personally love the 7 speed DCT for how easy it is to use and how quick it shifts.
We didn't get the manual here in the UK, so only have the DCT as the default option. I'd be leaving it standard for a while, but eventually I'd look at a map from a reputable source, rather than using an OTS map etc.

Thanks everyone for your replies.
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      05-26-2020, 09:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryDog View Post
I am hoping that my budget will stretch to a later car, but what is the issue with the pre 2013 cars?.
I think both the rod bending* and MY13 "unreliability" are overblown. I'd imagine if a '13 with at least moderate miles had a faulty injector or HPFP, it would have gone bad by now. Oil consumption is the one thing I'd really look out for more with a '13 than beyond, as 13s in particular seem to have examples of significant oil consumption. Other than that, it's the same questions regardless of year: was it well maintained and not beat to hell?

Personally, I'm not sure I'd buy any year w/o a warranty, but I'm not big on risk.

*on a stock or properly/safely stage 1 tuned car that isn't being ragged on at low RPMs
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      05-26-2020, 11:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafan13 View Post
I think both the rod bending* and MY13 "unreliability" are overblown. I'd imagine if a '13 with at least moderate miles had a faulty injector or HPFP, it would have gone bad by now. Oil consumption is the one thing I'd really look out for more with a '13 than beyond, as 13s in particular seem to have examples of significant oil consumption. Other than that, it's the same questions regardless of year: was it well maintained and not beat to hell?

Personally, I'm not sure I'd buy any year w/o a warranty, but I'm not big on risk.

*on a stock or properly/safely stage 1 tuned car that isn't being ragged on at low RPMs
Same here. 2013 just had the EU5 Injectors rather than EU6 which were the revised ones for 2014+ models. Luckily as all members should know the 2013 M5 has extended warranty on the fuel pumps and injectors until 10yr/120k. Ive had my passenger side fuel pump replaced. Run quality gas and fuel cleaners.
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      05-26-2020, 01:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwpower603 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arucano View Post
The post 2013 engines are reliable. Most of the major problems are with (poorly) tuned engines. They are not cheap when maintenance is required beyond the routine stuff, but if you can afford the car you should be able to afford the routine maintenance and wear item costs. The S63T does not have a rod bearing problem (with above listed caveat)
This is good information. Thank you.

How hard is it to find one of these in a 6 speed manual?

That’s is my only preference

I just tried a couple m5s that I’m interested in realoem they are post 2014 and all day s63N. Maybe I can try ista to check the engine ?
I just got my '16 6 spd in February. Had about five searches going on various aggregators for 8-9 months. Wasn't too picky but wanted dark color ext/int and CP. Ultimately, found it on the other side of the US but did have to concede higher miles (43k). I understand there were approx 500 sold in the US between '13-16. Would welcome any other estimates but that's what I'd read.
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      05-26-2020, 03:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafan13 View Post
I think both the rod bending* and MY13 "unreliability" are overblown. I'd imagine if a '13 with at least moderate miles had a faulty injector or HPFP, it would have gone bad by now. Oil consumption is the one thing I'd really look out for more with a '13 than beyond, as 13s in particular seem to have examples of significant oil consumption. Other than that, it's the same questions regardless of year: was it well maintained and not beat to hell?

Personally, I'm not sure I'd buy any year w/o a warranty, but I'm not big on risk.

*on a stock or properly/safely stage 1 tuned car that isn't being ragged on at low RPMs
I don't beat on my E60, but I do like to open the taps when I can. I am not a big fan of risk, but I like freedom. The warranty I have on my E60 prevents me from tuning it, so a warrantied F10 would be the same. Do you know why the 2011-13 cars use more oil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_M5 View Post
Same here. 2013 just had the EU5 Injectors rather than EU6 which were the revised ones for 2014+ models. Luckily as all members should know the 2013 M5 has extended warranty on the fuel pumps and injectors until 10yr/120k. Ive had my passenger side fuel pump replaced. Run quality gas and fuel cleaners.
Does the 2014 have the extended warranty? Is it only in the USA? Does your 2013 use a lot of oil?
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      05-27-2020, 09:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryDog View Post
Do you know why the 2011-13 cars use more oil?
I don't think we know for sure. From what I've read, the theory is those with bad consumption didn't have a "proper" break-in, but that doesn't explain why the following years seem to have it much less. Perhaps some stealth revision to the oil separator or other part of the PCV system? It's annoying that there isn't a good oil catch can setup for cars with stock intakes.

And when I said "haven't been ragged on", I wasn't talking about driving it hard like it's meant to be, I was referring to stuff like going hard before warmup or a penchant for going WOT from ~2K RPM or something.
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      05-27-2020, 03:06 PM   #13
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This thread is almost identical to 996 and 997 (911) owners posts regarding their concerns/advice etc. but related to bore scoring. Uncanny!
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      05-28-2020, 06:31 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by PoolCar View Post
This thread is almost identical to 996 and 997 (911) owners posts regarding their concerns/advice etc. but related to bore scoring. Uncanny!
I'd say it isn't unique to any car brand in general.
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