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      09-30-2014, 10:39 PM   #111
VintageFerrari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David 12 View Post
Also, unless i missed them, I can't find actual dyno charts on the Dinan website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMD View Post
The Dinan rep called me in response to my post. He stated that the total hp of 666 that the stage 1 upgrade was correct but due to the fact that BMW understated their hp at 575 for the competition package, the 91 hp increase was inaccurate. Dinan thinks the correct hp stock is in the 625 range so maybe a 40 hp gain is realized with their modification.
Here's the Dyno Graphs and Value Tables from Dinan (which are found on the Dinan website by clicking the Pictures/Video tab at):

http://dinancars.com/product/d440-16...ries&mid=1163/

and

http://dinancars.com/product/d440-16...ries&mid=1163/
Attached Images
    

Last edited by VintageFerrari; 09-30-2014 at 11:25 PM..
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      09-30-2014, 11:03 PM   #112
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There's a bit of a problem with the HP and TRQ values contained in the COMPETITION PACKAGE OEM tables above. The main problem is ALL the tables are showing IDENTICAL HP and TRQ OEM values for BOTH Competition and Non-Competition packages alike, at ANY given rpm...

However, I think I've figured what Dinan's done wrong!

From best as I can tell looking at Dinan’s tables, it would appear that in the 2500-4500rpm range, HP and TRQ are IDENTICAL for the OEM Non-Competition and Competition Packages alike!

It’s in the 5000-6000rpm range where the OEM Competition Package shows its stuff.

I believe the problem lies in the accuracy of the OEM Competition Package numbers (in the Dinan Table), in the 5000-6000rpm range.

It seems that whomever inputed the OEM Competition HP and TRQ numbers on BOTH the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Competition Package tables made mathematical errors, which need to be corrected.

For instance, on the Stage 2 Competition Package Tables, Dinan calls out a gain of +64 HP 5000rpm. However, if one subtracts 531 Stock HP from 604 Stage 2 HP, that FALSE delta is +73 HP, NOT the +64 HP stated in the Gain field. Therefore, the Stock OEM Competition Package HP 5000rpm must be 537 rather than 531 in order to agree with Dinan's stated +64 HP gain, etc.

Same thing 5500rpm: Stock OEM Competition Package HP must be 592 rather than 581. Same thing 6000rpm: Stock OEM Competition HP must be 633 rather than 618.

Similarly, Stock OEM TRQ 5000rpm must be 564 rather than 558. Stock OEM TRQ 5500rpm must be 565 rather than 554. Stock OEM TRQ must be 554 rather than 541.

If that’s all correct, then the TRUE Stage 1 OEM Competition Package HP and TRQ numbers in the 5000-6000rpm range must be as extrapolated above, and thusly need to be similarly corrected on the Stage 1 Competition Package tables. Which, by implication, would then mean the true/actual Stage 1 gains on a Competition Package car IN REALITY are as follows:

+47 HP (rather than the +53 HP Dinan states) 5000rpm
+35 HP (rather than the +46 HP Dinan states) 5500rpm
+33 HP (rather than the +48 HP Dinan states) 6000rpm

+50 TRQ (rather than the +56 TRQ Dinan states) 5000rpm
+34 TRQ (rather than the +46 TRQ Dinan states) 5500rpm
+29 TRQ (rather than the +42 TRQ Dinan states) 6000rpm

Dinan uses a Dynapack dynamometer which attaches directly to the wheel hubs. If Dinan's OEM flywheel values (i.e. which are obviously extrapolated from the rear-wheel measurements) are indeed accurate, then it would seem BMW is indeed UNDERRATING peak flywheel HP and TRQ by a factor of approximately 10%, as many have already long suspected (i.e. according to Dinan, on a non-Competition Package motor, peak OEM flywheel HP is 618 vs 560 Factory, and peak OEM flywheel TRQ is 576 vs 502 Factory; on a Competition Package motor, peak OEM flywheel HP is 633 vs 575 Factory, and peak OEM flywheel TRQ is 576 vs 502 Factory).

THEREFORE, THE ACTUAL GAINS ACHIEVED BY BOTH DINANTRONICS STAGES 1 AND 2 NEED TO BE SEEN/UNDERSTOOD/APPRECIATED IN RELATION TO THE TRUE (I.E. ABOUT 10% HIGHER THAN WHAT BMW OFFICIALLY IS QUOTING) POWER OUTPUT OF THE COMPETITION AND NON-COMPETITION MOTORS ALIKE, RATHER THAN RELATIVE TO THE CIRCA-10% UNDERSTATED/UNDERRATED BMW FACTORY FIGURES, ETC.

Last edited by VintageFerrari; 09-30-2014 at 11:48 PM..
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      10-01-2014, 02:36 PM   #113
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As of this morning, Dinan has now posted the corrected Tables reflecting the higher (actual/accurate) HP and TRQ starting values of the OEM Competition Package in the 5000-6500rpm range:
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      10-01-2014, 02:49 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageFerrari View Post
As of this morning, Dinan has now posted the corrected Tables reflecting the higher (actual/accurate) HP and TRQ starting values of the OEM Competition Package in the 5000-6500rpm range:
You see how they say BMW claimed hp? I don't know why they don't claim their own before and after base hp.
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      10-01-2014, 03:52 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by m6beast View Post
You see how they say BMW claimed hp? I don't know why they don't claim their own before and after base hp.
At the top of the HP and TRQ Graphs, Dinan does indeed cite BMW's "Factory Rated" numbers.

However, Dinan DOES divulge their own measured "BEFORE" HP and TRQ numbers. It's in the TABLES (found just below each Graph) where Dinan's "BEFORE" HP and TRQ values are listed.

As I stated in yesterday's post (Post No. 112) in this very thread, BMW understates/underrates the peak HP and TRQ by a factor of about 10%.

Last edited by VintageFerrari; 10-01-2014 at 04:09 PM..
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      10-01-2014, 04:15 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageFerrari View Post
As of this morning, Dinan has now posted the corrected Tables reflecting the higher (actual/accurate) HP and TRQ starting values of the OEM Competition Package in the 5000-6500rpm range:
I gotcha!
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      10-01-2014, 05:53 PM   #117
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Follow up: Real world Dinan Stage I #'s

After the original install I felt nothing. Figured something was up. Sure enough, the Dyno confirmed there was an issue (dotted line). Software re-installed and immediately felt a big difference The car was off the charts by the seat-of-the-pants-ometer.. Dyno run today looked great (solid line).


http://f10.m5post.com/forums/picture...ictureid=54442
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      10-01-2014, 05:55 PM   #118
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Original post for those that are interested...

Its official, the original install did not take. In addition, one of the air intakes was registering a fault which may have been cutting power. After a long day, the stage I software was installed today and the difference was there as I was pulling out of the dealership. The car sounded meaner. The low end torque is impossible not to recognize. Big difference with the stage I tune I happily attest. I am still grinning from my drive home. Can't wait to drive tomorrow.. What a drama though.
I realize we are operating at a very high end - where drama happens quickly and easily. Given the stratosphere (and the fact that we are talking about cars, not SYRIA) I excuse Dinan and the dealership. They made it right and thats what matters to me.

Pre and post install Dyno:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/picture...ictureid=54442
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      10-01-2014, 06:25 PM   #119
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It seems odd how many have stated that the Dinan piggyback did not initially work and either needed a new box or "re-tune"

Does anyone know if this is related to the fact they ship there boxes without the tune which then needs to be added by the authorized dealer?

Never really here of a BMS box needing to be exchanged or "re-tuned"

No doubt Dinan backs all there stuff but the inconstancy of the tune would scare me a little. Can there be differences from car to car i.e. adapts for some or better for some vs others?

Is this maybe because it is more sophisticated trying to control more factors vs the BMS which just increases boost and keeps it simple?
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      10-02-2014, 06:44 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageFerrari View Post
As of this morning, Dinan has now posted the corrected Tables reflecting the higher (actual/accurate) HP and TRQ starting values of the OEM Competition Package in the 5000-6500rpm range:
You see how they say BMW claimed hp? I don't know why they don't claim their own before and after base hp.
The problem with their "crank hp tables " is we don't know what correction factor they are using . But since they are showing a stock M5 has 630 hp we can safely say they are using too high of a drivetrain loss number . I hate these manufactured curves , just show us the before and after dyno pack whp !!!!
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      10-02-2014, 08:24 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
The problem with their "crank hp tables " is we don't know what correction factor they are using . But since they are showing a stock M5 has 630 hp we can safely say they are using too high of a drivetrain loss number . I hate these manufactured curves , just show us the before and after dyno pack whp !!!!
Not sure if you saw the results of my run yesterday. Please see my last two posts. Im curious to hear what people make of those curves.
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      10-02-2014, 09:30 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
The problem with their "crank hp tables " is we don't know what correction factor they are using . But since they are showing a stock M5 has 630 hp we can safely say they are using too high of a drivetrain loss number . I hate these manufactured curves , just show us the before and after dyno pack whp !!!!
+1 G
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      10-02-2014, 10:30 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG7
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
The problem with their "crank hp tables " is we don't know what correction factor they are using . But since they are showing a stock M5 has 630 hp we can safely say they are using too high of a drivetrain loss number . I hate these manufactured curves , just show us the before and after dyno pack whp !!!!
Not sure if you saw the results of my run yesterday. Please see my last two posts. Im curious to hear what people make of those curves.
That's a very solid whp gain ,mostly up top where the car can use it . What mods do you have in addition to the tune ?
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      10-02-2014, 11:31 AM   #124
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A stock M5 does not make 618 hp and a stock M5 CP does not make 633 hp . Their performance is not commensurate with a DCT car that makes that power with the great power curve of the S63 TU . Dinan needs to just show their raw hub dyno whp numbers before and after the tunes . The gains the customer above got and more importantly the power curve with the increase being predominantly in the upper rpm band are excellent . No one trusts computer generated curves and HP tables with some unknown correction factor being used . Not showing the whp results or at least the correction factor used in converting to crank is a severe detriment to their business and hindering sales of what seems to be an excellent product given the above gains .
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      10-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
The problem with their "crank hp tables " is we don't know what correction factor they are using . But since they are showing a stock M5 has 630 hp we can safely say they are using too high of a drivetrain loss number .
Dinan's max correction factor for the F10 M5 (S63 Tu) is 12-13%. However, at lower rpms, the correction factor used is significantly less.

Last edited by VintageFerrari; 10-02-2014 at 04:06 PM..
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      10-02-2014, 03:46 PM   #126
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A bad part in the box can always be expected regardless of what the item is.
From my involvement with seeing and programming Dinan D-tronics units, whoever is programming the vehicle needs to not only select the appropriate "Bluetooth module" to program but also re-check that unit after programming to confirm that the program was accepted.
If someone rushed thru it and didn't take the time to double check after programming it could very easily not be programmed in the first place.
Make sense ? lol
The vehicle needs to be "x" amount of feet away from the programming computer, have a strong internet connection, etc.. to ensure proper programming.
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      10-02-2014, 07:08 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroKar View Post
A bad part in the box can always be expected regardless of what the item is.
From my involvement with seeing and programming Dinan D-tronics units, whoever is programming the vehicle needs to not only select the appropriate "Bluetooth module" to program but also re-check that unit after programming to confirm that the program was accepted.
If someone rushed thru it and didn't take the time to double check after programming it could very easily not be programmed in the first place.
Make sense ? lol
The vehicle needs to be "x" amount of feet away from the programming computer, have a strong internet connection, etc.. to ensure proper programming.
Thanks EuroKar
makes allot of sense and good points
Checked with the local Dinan installer in my area and that is what they also said
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      10-02-2014, 07:57 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
That's a very solid whp gain ,mostly up top where the car can use it . What mods do you have in addition to the tune ?
Just the CP and the free flow exhaust. Stock intake
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      10-02-2014, 08:03 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG7 View Post
Just the CP and the free flow exhaust. Stock intake
Dinan free flow exhaust..
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      10-10-2014, 11:05 AM   #130
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For those of you that have the DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner we just released an update for your vehicles that gives you a bit more power. It's free to you and all you have to do is contact your local Dinan dealer and schedule an appointment. The website and charts have been updated with the new information if you want a more in depth look but the simple breakdown of the power increases can be found below...

F10 M5 & F06/12/13 M6 (Stage 1)
Old Performance Numbers: 652 HP, 631 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 680 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 (Stage 2)
Old Performance Numbers: 675 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 693 HP, 651 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 & F06/12/13 M6 Competition Package (Stage 1)
Old Performance Numbers: 666 HP, 634 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 695 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 Competition Package (Stage 2)
Old Performance Numbers: 689 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 708 HP, 651 lb-ft of torque
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      10-10-2014, 11:22 AM   #131
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Thats great news !!
I'm setting up my appointment to get this done asap
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      10-10-2014, 01:04 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
For those of you that have the DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner we just released an update for your vehicles that gives you a bit more power. It's free to you and all you have to do is contact your local Dinan dealer and schedule an appointment. The website and charts have been updated with the new information if you want a more in depth look but the simple breakdown of the power increases can be found below...

F10 M5 & F06/12/13 M6 (Stage 1)
Old Performance Numbers: 652 HP, 631 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 680 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 (Stage 2)
Old Performance Numbers: 675 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 693 HP, 651 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 & F06/12/13 M6 Competition Package (Stage 1)
Old Performance Numbers: 666 HP, 634 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 695 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque

F10 M5 Competition Package (Stage 2)
Old Performance Numbers: 689 HP, 644 lb-ft of torque
New Performance Numbers: 708 HP, 651 lb-ft of torque
Thanks! I have it scheduled for Wednesday morning. Since I have the Noelle DPs I should have over 700hp once this gets done.
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