I bought a Lemon

[FossilFuel]

Guys

I love the BMW brand, I really do.*

I have a*wardrobe full of BMW branded stuff and I continue to be loyal despite the unfortunate events.*

This is my 2nd BMW. I decided to trade in my F30 335i for the F10 M5 (Solid car, had it for almost 3 years, not a single issue)

I thought that was the best discussion I ever made and I was confident that a CPO M5 with extended warranty will be a solid investment and a better choice over a brand new M5.

It felt like a rational decision at that time since I didn't want to wait for months to get the brand new M5 with the same options.*

July 16th 2015 Car was at dealership for 1 Week
Drivetrain malfunction the car completely stalled on the highway.
It came to a complete stop on the highway in the morning, I was driving around 110/120Kmph and got a message on the head unit saying drive train malfunction, maximum power not available, and contact the dealership. I had very limited time to react and it just died on the live lane.
I ended up calling 911 and got it towed to the BMW dealership as I was a liability on the road waiting to get hit.

Sep 12th 2015 Car was at dealership for 4 days
Drivetrain malfunction, car lost power on the highway, the drivetrain malfunction popped up when I was driving with my kids to a family brunch. I quickly got off the live lane and got to the right shoulder as I didn’t want the car to stall again in the middle of the highway like the last time (July 16, 2015). I shut off the ignition and called a tow truck, I was told it would take an hour so I decided to start the car and luckily it fired up. So I decided to drive slowly to the dealership and cancelled the tow truck. The car felt jerky and didn’t rev up it barely got to 50Kmph even with the gas pedal fully depressed.

Sep 16th 2015 Car was at dealership for 2 Weeks
I was dropping my kids at daycare in the morning and the drivetrain malfunction popped up again. Got off the live lane and got to the right shoulder (I am getting so much better with this process now) Had my wife come from work to pick up the kids. Took the car back to the dealership.

Oct 1st 2015 Car currently at dealership No ETA
I was driving to work, just as soon as I got off the exit it popped up again, was able to get it to a side road where it stopped and pushed it to a parking lot near by and walked to the office extremely pissed.

The engineers and technicians at the dealership can't figure out the main issue, and I am done with their reactive trial and error fixes. I am demanding a replacement car or a full buy back.

I love my M5 but I have to get rid of it.

[RPiM5]

Funny. Sorry to hear of your tales of woe. Yeah on some M5's, the electronics can be quite troublesome and a lot of technicians don't have the skills or experience to figure out exactly what caused the vague "drivetrain malfunction" message. BMW really should have come up with some sort of better active self-diagnostic system where instead of displaying "drivetrain malfunction" which could be caused by any one of a 1,000 different things, perhaps a more accurate description of the problem could be displayed intead. The cars of the future should have better diagnostics for the drivers or at least I hope so. I feel like if your tail light goes out you are going to get a "drivetrain malfunction" on this current generation of BMW's. Good luck if you really decide to lemon it, at least the Singapore Grey looks good, even on the flatbed.

[chong0]

fantastic license plates in your pics

sorry to hear about your troubles. hopefully your loaner is reasonable

[stealth.pilot]

Yep. That's what the lemon law is for. My sense from reading this board though is that there are relatively few lemon cases - I've had 2 and both were flawless.

It's a good car, you just had the misfortune of recieving a duff one.

[Dr.Jeff]

I have had the same issues with my '14 M5 CP with Stage1 Dinan Tune... It's happened so many times I've lost count....Dinan has guys flying out this week to figure out the problem... It's been a mess... I've owned 2 other M's and never had this many problems... I'm definitely thinking about a luxury SUV next, so I can get my kids to school without my car turning into a prius on the road because of the malfunction.... Keep you guys posted...

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Yep. That's what the lemon law is for. My sense from reading this board though is that there are relatively few lemon cases - I've had 2 and both were flawless.

It's a good car, you just had the misfortune of recieving a duff one.

It's my understanding that the lemon law can only be utilized if its the first owner. Second hand owners do not get the lemon law privilege.

[M5essex]

I cant help feeling these malfunctions are due to either the after market exhaust fcuking with the back pressures and sensors and/or the third party tune being installed hence bringing on the DM warning. This is surely BMW stating to not mess with my brains unless you are a BMW engineer installing our OEM parts...

I can see the OP's car has an aftermarket exhaust or perhaps just different tips? surely no manufacturer would replace under any law if the standard stock car has been messed with?

[Seattle135is]

Does the Lemon law work for CPO just like purchasing new?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Seattle335

Does the Lemon law work for CPO just like purchasing new?

Varies state to state, but usually not.

However in the case of a CPO, you may be able to get a lawyer to force a buyback under the fair business practices law. The idea been that BMW made claims about this CPO car which they misrepresented.

[Vic55]

It appears the owner is from Canada so this might apply (from wiki) but there is no "lemon law" in Canada. But the CAMVAP apparently applies to used units as well.

Canada:

The Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP) is the dispute resolution program for Canadians who have problems with the assembly of their vehicle or with how the manufacturer implements its new vehicle warranty. CAMVAP covers new and used, owned and leased vehicles that are from the current model year and up to an additional four model years.

CAMVAP is free for consumers, and hearings are held in the consumer's home community. The process normally takes less than 70 days from start to finish. Most consumers are able to handle their own case without the assistance of lawyers. The manufacturers do not use lawyers. Their representatives usually are serving or retired district parts and services representatives. An inspection of the vehicle normally is part of an arbitration hearing and the arbitrator can order a technical inspection of the vehicle at the program's expense if doing so is required.

CAMVAP arbitrators can order the manufacturer to buy back the vehicle; repair it at the manufacturer's expense; pay for repairs already completed; or pay out of pocket expenses for items such as towing, diagnostic testing, rental cars and accommodation related to the problem with the vehicle. The arbitrator can also determine that the manufacturer has no liability.

CAMVAP is available in all Canadian provinces and territories.

[IshR]

Originally Posted by M5essex

I cant help feeling these malfunctions are due to either the after market exhaust fcuking with the back pressures and sensors and/or the third party tune being installed hence bringing on the DM warning. This is surely BMW stating to not mess with my brains unless you are a BMW engineer installing our OEM parts...

I can see the OP's car has an aftermarket exhaust or perhaps just different tips? surely no manufacturer would replace under any law if the standard stock car has been messed with?

Is there any link between aftermarket cat-back exhausts and drivetrain malfunction ?

My e60 was a BMW approved used car and it came with a tubi exhaust from the previous owner. I've had no problems making claims from BMW warranty either.
I have also seen f10 m5s for sale on the BMW approved used website with aftermarket exhausts.

[M5essex]

I don't know the answer here but I'm surprised to see bmw approved cars with warranty that have anything but stock, mpe or akra exhausts... I'm probably wrong so apologies to everyone who knows different but just posing the question, as this is what I have been told by main dealers...

[M5essex]

But yes, the guys who get drivetrain malfunctions more often than not have either a tune and/ or aftermarket exhausts...

[IshR]

Originally Posted by M5essex

I don't know the answer here but I'm surprised to see bmw approved cars with warranty that have anything but stock, mpe or akra exhausts... I'm probably wrong so apologies to everyone who knows different but just posing the question, as this is what I have been told by main dealers...

No need to apologise mate, good to hear ideas and opinions thrown around. BMW are quite inconsistent depending on who you talk to. Some customers are told cat back exhausts will not void warranty, others are told it will. Guess it depends on the BMW garage you go to and the relationship you have with them.

I will definitely take your opinion that aftermarket exhausts increase risk of dt malfunction seriously / into consideration

[FossilFuel]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Funny. Sorry to hear of your tales of woe. Yeah on some M5's, the electronics can be quite troublesome and a lot of technicians don't have the skills or experience to figure out exactly what caused the vague "drivetrain malfunction" message. BMW really should have come up with some sort of better active self-diagnostic system where instead of displaying "drivetrain malfunction" which could be caused by any one of a 1,000 different things, perhaps a more accurate description of the problem could be displayed intead. The cars of the future should have better diagnostics for the drivers or at least I hope so. I feel like if your tail light goes out you are going to get a "drivetrain malfunction" on this current generation of BMW's. Good luck if you really decide to lemon it, at least the Singapore Grey looks good, even on the flatbed.

Thanks RPiM5, I just hope i get a solid replacement car with singapore grey/sakhir orange combo.

[FossilFuel]

Originally Posted by chong0

fantastic license plates in your pics

sorry to hear about your troubles. hopefully your loaner is reasonable

Thanks chong0, been driving a 320 for a week now

[FossilFuel]

Originally Posted by Vic55

It appears the owner is from Canada so this might apply (from wiki) but there is no "lemon law" in Canada. But the CAMVAP apparently applies to used units as well.

Canada:

The Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP) is the dispute resolution program for Canadians who have problems with the assembly of their vehicle or with how the manufacturer implements its new vehicle warranty. CAMVAP covers new and used, owned and leased vehicles that are from the current model year and up to an additional four model years.

CAMVAP is free for consumers, and hearings are held in the consumer's home community. The process normally takes less than 70 days from start to finish. Most consumers are able to handle their own case without the assistance of lawyers. The manufacturers do not use lawyers. Their representatives usually are serving or retired district parts and services representatives. An inspection of the vehicle normally is part of an arbitration hearing and the arbitrator can order a technical inspection of the vehicle at the program's expense if doing so is required.

CAMVAP arbitrators can order the manufacturer to buy back the vehicle; repair it at the manufacturer's expense; pay for repairs already completed; or pay out of pocket expenses for items such as towing, diagnostic testing, rental cars and accommodation related to the problem with the vehicle. The arbitrator can also determine that the manufacturer has no liability.

CAMVAP is available in all Canadian provinces and territories.

Thanks Vic55 i have filed a complaint with them, i just wish BMW will respond quickly, they are extremely slow to react, even after saying that i am prepared to lease a 2015/2016 M5.

[FossilFuel]

Originally Posted by M5essex

But yes, the guys who get drivetrain malfunctions more often than not have either a tune and/ or aftermarket exhausts...

I guess so, mine is complete stock. All I have is carbon fibre aesthetics, lip, mirror covers, exhaust tips.

[Hammer91]

Originally Posted by FossilFuel

Guys

I love the BMW brand, I really do.*

I have a*wardrobe full of BMW branded stuff and I continue to be loyal despite the unfortunate events.*

This is my 2nd BMW. I decided to trade in my F30 335i for the F10 M5 (Solid car, had it for almost 3 years, not a single issue)

I thought that was the best discussion I ever made and I was confident that a CPO M5 with extended warranty will be a solid investment and a better choice over a brand new M5.

It felt like a rational decision at that time since I didn't want to wait for months to get the brand new M5 with the same options.*

July 16th 2015 Car was at dealership for 1 Week
Drivetrain malfunction the car completely stalled on the highway.
It came to a complete stop on the highway in the morning, I was driving around 110/120Kmph and got a message on the head unit saying drive train malfunction, maximum power not available, and contact the dealership. I had very limited time to react and it just died on the live lane.
I ended up calling 911 and got it towed to the BMW dealership as I was a liability on the road waiting to get hit.

Sep 12th 2015 Car was at dealership for 4 days
Drivetrain malfunction, car lost power on the highway, the drivetrain malfunction popped up when I was driving with my kids to a family brunch. I quickly got off the live lane and got to the right shoulder as I didn’t want the car to stall again in the middle of the highway like the last time (July 16, 2015). I shut off the ignition and called a tow truck, I was told it would take an hour so I decided to start the car and luckily it fired up. So I decided to drive slowly to the dealership and cancelled the tow truck. The car felt jerky and didn’t rev up it barely got to 50Kmph even with the gas pedal fully depressed.

Sep 16th 2015 Car was at dealership for 2 Weeks
I was dropping my kids at daycare in the morning and the drivetrain malfunction popped up again. Got off the live lane and got to the right shoulder (I am getting so much better with this process now) Had my wife come from work to pick up the kids. Took the car back to the dealership.

Oct 1st 2015 Car currently at dealership No ETA
I was driving to work, just as soon as I got off the exit it popped up again, was able to get it to a side road where it stopped and pushed it to a parking lot near by and walked to the office extremely pissed.

The engineers and technicians at the dealership can't figure out the main issue, and I am done with their reactive trial and error fixes. I am demanding a replacement car or a full buy back.

I love my M5 but I have to get rid of it.

Sorry for your problems. I had similar situation, have 2014 Competition Package with Dinan Stage 1 tune, no other mods at all. The dealer was bringing my car back to my house after washing it when it died in the middle of the road. It had to be flat bedded back to dealership where it was found to have blown fuel pump fuse. Fuse replaced, car tested out OK, and was returned. First time I drove it, it died in the middle of an intersection. Fortunately I made them give me some extra fuses, and sure enough it was the fuel pump fuse blown and replacing it got me on my way back to the dealer. It was showing a fault in the circuit for the fuel pump. I learned that a bad fuel pump can cause a fuse to blow. The F10 M5 has 2 mechanical high pressure fuel pumps, and one electric sender unit in the fuel tank. They replaced the fuel pump relay, fuel pump sending unit, and filter. This solved the problem and I have had no issues since. Of interest I received a letter from BMW extending my warranty on the new fuel pump to 10 years, which tells me this must be a known issue.

I don't know if any of this helpful, but sure hope they get you fixed, having the car go dead in the middle of traffic is not fun, I know!

[Hammer91]

Originally Posted by Dr.Jeff

I have had the same issues with my '14 M5 CP with Stage1 Dinan Tune... It's happened so many times I've lost count....Dinan has guys flying out this week to figure out the problem... It's been a mess... I've owned 2 other M's and never had this many problems... I'm definitely thinking about a luxury SUV next, so I can get my kids to school without my car turning into a prius on the road because of the malfunction.... Keep you guys posted...

Sorry for your problems. I had similar situation, have 2014 Competition Package with Dinan Stage 1 tune, no other mods at all. The dealer was bringing my car back to my house after washing it when it died in the middle of the road. It had to be flat bedded back to dealership where it was found to have blown fuel pump fuse. Fuse replaced, car tested out OK, and was returned. First time I drove it, it died in the middle of an intersection. Fortunately I made them give me some extra fuses, and sure enough it was the fuel pump fuse blown and replacing it got me on my way back to the dealer. It was showing a fault in the circuit for the fuel pump. I learned that a bad fuel pump can cause a fuse to blow. The F10 M5 has 2 mechanical high pressure fuel pumps, and one electric sender unit in the fuel tank. They replaced the fuel pump relay, fuel pump sending unit, and filter. This solved the problem and I have had no issues since. Of interest I received a letter from BMW extending my warranty on the new fuel pump to 10 years, which tells me this must be a known issue.

I don't know if any of this helpful, but sure hope they get you fixed, having the car go dead in the middle of traffic is not fun, I know!

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by IshR

No need to apologise mate, good to hear ideas and opinions thrown around. BMW are quite inconsistent depending on who you talk to. Some customers are told cat back exhausts will not void warranty, others are told it will. Guess it depends on the BMW garage you go to and the relationship you have with them.

I will definitely take your opinion that aftermarket exhausts increase risk of dt malfunction seriously / into consideration

catless downpipes might increase risk, not an exhaust