[PrematureApex]

Just a maxed out N55...

From Terry...

The good:

1) Car looks super awesome in person and really attracts a lot of attention on the road. DCT drives and shifts great.
2) The tuning scheme is the same as the M235 EWG. Meaning our existing F Series N55 EWG JB4 is fully compatible from a hardware perspective. Some minor M2 specific software changes will be added, of course.
3) All of the cool in dash controls we've added to the F Series JB4 are compatible. CANflap works, in dash boost gauge works, map switching works, boost by gear works, 6cyl timing logging works, and it even logs the DCT trans oil temperature.
4) The platform appears to be E85 friendly. More on that later.

The bad:

1) This is simply based on my initial few hours with the car. But from a performance perspective, it appears to be basically an N55 with a tune from the factory. It's not in the same universe as the S55 M3/M4 motor and even appears to be a step down from the B58 found in the new 340i.

2) On normal pump 91 octane fuel running its factory 15-16psi boost profile it had fairly significant timing pull and only put down 330whp. Subsequent pulls did even worse as it heated up.

3) We added an E30 mix on the dyno and the factory power jumped up nicely to the 350whp range and it was also more consistent. Even at this power level though the car had a strange behavior where it would momentarily drop boost for no apparent reason, resulting in a noticeable "hiccup" in the dyno chart. Maybe something that will be fixed via a future software update or perhaps related to the E30 itself without tuning in place for it.

4) I raised boost around 3psi just to evaluate it on the E30 mix and the result was pretty respectable power. Around 390whp. Which, is what the normal 335 F30 EWG cars make on E30 at roughly the same boost level.

Potential Tuning Gains:

E85 Mix: I expect we'll be able to get power up to around 425whp.
91 Octane: There is no power to be picked up via tuning on 91. Just the extra features via the JB4.
93 Octane: I'm hopeful with good 93 octane we can pickup at least 15-20whp and similar torque.

Bottom Line:

It's a cool little platform. But basically appears to be a more aggressively tuned M235.

From a power potential perspective, we'd have been better off with a B58.

[TunedM2C]

Well I'll be on 93 and an e85 mix so I'm excited.

[PrematureApex]

Yup, and again, there are reasonable priced, reliable aftermarket solutions for the turbo size...so no real worries.

$900 gets you a very nice top end. $2500 gets you 500 bhp.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Yup, and again, there are reasonable priced, reliable aftermarket solutions for the turbo size...so no real worries.

$900 gets you a very nice top end. $2500 gets you 500 bhp.

What are the fueling solutions for these size solutions? For example, if you go with a Pure Stage 1 or Stage 2, who makes the piggyback or flash that goes with them?

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by BruceM

What are the fueling solutions for these size solutions? For example, if you go with a Pure Stage 1 or Stage 2, who makes the piggyback or flash that goes with them?

You can run stock fueling on either stage 1 or stage 2.

You can run an off the shelf JB4 (you'd want to set higher boost targets via a custom map to get the most out of it), nothing more. Or you can do a backend flash (Burger has a free one you can use) with or without a JB4 over top.

It is literally a bolt-on solution.

Easy as pie.

[Twix]

I'm really hoping somebody does a direct ECU tune for this thing. I'm sick of seeing these lame piggybacks that don't offer the user the ability to tweak their own parameters.

[kovsky]

If you have e85 gas station nearby adding 65rwhp is pretty nice. Like he mentioned in the "post" 420rwhp will be pretty easy.

If that's not enough there is always Pure.

But yes, yesterday's results were quite disappointing until e85 was tried.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Twix

I'm really hoping somebody does a direct ECU tune for this thing. I'm sick of seeing these lame piggybacks that don't offer the user the ability to tweak their own parameters.

Was this a serious post?

There are backend flashes for this ECU already.

And do you not know that you can set your own targets/custom map with a JB4? If anything, you cold argue the JB4 offers MORE user tuneabilty. And they certainly make MORE power than tunes. Lame I guess?

This isn't 1995. Piggybacks have come a long way, actually offer many advantages over flashes on these platforms.

You're sick of piggybacks? Based on what exactly? Your JB4 experience with a 4-cyclinder X1 is hardly indicative of what the rest of the community has been enjoying for years with the N54/55.

Perhaps a bit of research on your end is in order?

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Was this a serious post?

There are backend flashes for this ECU already.

And do you not know that you can set your own targets/custom map with a JB4? If anything, you cold argue the JB4 offers MORE user tuneabilty. And they certainly make MORE power than tunes. Lame I guess?

This isn't 1995. Piggybacks have come a long way, actually offer many advantages over flashes on these platforms.

Y

Well, this is great news. I clearly have lost track of technology advances over the years. My last involvement with serious tuning was a Motec M48 black box on my 930, and that was not an easy tune, to say the least. Basically had to create a new ECU from scratch. Once dialed in, it was excellent, and still is, but this is something else altogether.

Just so I understand, though, you are saying that the existing, stock ECU would provide adequate fueling under all load conditions to increase safe hp and torque with a Pure Turbo, but a JB4 or similar piggyback would allow relatively simple custom mapping to increase limits further?

And what is a "backend flash?" I certainly understand what a flash is--my Jag has a good one--but what does "backend" add?

Thank you for whatever guidance you can provide at your convenience. It helps mitigate this interminable waiting process...

[PrematureApex]

I know what you mean, we ran Motecs (and much older systems) in our FSAE cars a decade or two ago.

Yup, with just the JB4, you can achieve good results with either setup.

A backend flash alters the stock ECU tune (either expands factory ranges of operation, and/or shifts control of certain parameters to the JB4 for more control). The JB4 itself is a piggy running over top of the factory tune. So a backend flash, like a traditional tune, is altering the factory tune, in one aspect of another.

More specifically, for the N55, the backend flash changes the base fuel and timing map to better match you'd want for larger turbos, so the JB4 has less work to do altering on the fuel and timing end.

Not sure where stand alone flash tunes with the N55 are.

You can read a bit here...(edit, that's for the N54...let me find it for the N55 big turbo swaps)

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20563

But literally a google search for N55 backend flash, BMS, etc. will provide a lot of info. There's a few years of solid tuning/background out there...which is very good new.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by Twix

I'm really hoping somebody does a direct ECU tune for this thing. I'm sick of seeing these lame piggybacks that don't offer the user the ability to tweak their own parameters.

They already have and are working more & more.

EnzoPerformance
PrecisionTuning
MissionPerformance
Just to name a few

[filet.M2c]

This was already posted in the turbo thread by I believe it deserves its own thread/ discussion. Credit to PrematureApex for linking it. From Terry@BMS

]
Hey guys,

A local customer was generous enough to come out for a few hours so we could poke around under the hood, take some logs, and do a little dyno testing with his new M2. He has around 1000 miles on the clock I believe.

Per usual I'll try to keep it brief and to the point:

The good:

1) Car looks super awesome in person and really attracts a lot of attention on the road. DCT drives and shifts great.
2) The tuning scheme is the same as the M235 EWG. Meaning our existing F Series N55 EWG JB4 is fully compatible from a hardware perspective. Some minor M2 specific software changes will be added, of course.
3) All of the cool in dash controls we've added to the F Series JB4 are compatible. CANflap works, in dash boost gauge works, map switching works, boost by gear works, 6cyl timing logging works, and it even logs the DCT trans oil temperature.
4) The platform appears to be E85 friendly. More on that later.

The bad:

1) This is simply based on my initial few hours with the car. But from a performance perspective, it appears to be basically an N55 with a tune from the factory. It's not in the same universe as the S55 M3/M4 motor and even appears to be a step down from the B58 found in the new 340i.
2) On normal pump 91 octane fuel running its factory 15-16psi boost profile it had fairly significant timing pull and only put down 330whp. Subsequent pulls did even worse as it heated up.
3) We added an E30 mix on the dyno and the factory power jumped up nicely to the 350whp range and it was also more consistent. Even at this power level though the car had a strange behavior where it would momentarily drop boost for no apparent reason, resulting in a noticeable "hiccup" in the dyno chart. Maybe something that will be fixed via a future software update or perhaps related to the E30 itself without tuning in place for it.
4) I raised boost around 3psi just to evaluate it on the E30 mix and the result was pretty respectable power. Around 390whp. Which, is what the normal 335 F30 EWG cars make on E30 at roughly the same boost level.

Potential Tuning Gains:

E85 Mix: I expect we'll be able to get power up to around 425whp.
91 Octane: There is no power to be picked up via tuning on 91. Just the extra features via the JB4.
93 Octane: I'm hopeful with good 93 octane we can pickup at least 15-20whp and similar torque.

Bottom Line:

It's a cool little platform. But basically appears to be a more aggressively tuned M235.

This is what I feared the most and considering we only have 91 octane fuel in AZ it is quite a let down. My n54 135i made more power than the M2 with a JB4. What are all your thoughts

[Adem1534]

Always planned to and still will keep the engine 100% stock

[Ex-MINI]

Do people really plan to mod their cars this quickly? I'm planning to keep the car stock, at least until until the factory warranty runs out, assuming I keep the car that long.

[Bluenose-2er]

Seems to be a little self serving... he wants to sell tune kits! It is not exactly the same as the M235i N55 with a flash tune (as he claims)... so that casts some doubt on where he is getting his info.

Personally, I will keep mine stock. Not sure I need much more for a DD and don't plan to track it at this point. Others might have different plans of course... and maybe I will get jaded with the power level after a while

[kovsky]

Originally Posted by Ex-MINI

Do people really plan to mod their cars this quickly? ..

Yes, some people are not quite right in the head. Also, the JB4 setup is easy to remove and leaves no trace of any modifications.

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-1er

Seems to be a little self serving... he wants to sell tune kits! It is not exactly the same as the M235i N55 with a flash tune (as he claims)... so that casts some doubt on where he is getting his info.

Personally, I will keep mine stock. Not sure I need much more for a DD and don't plan to track it at this point. Others might have different plans of course... and maybe I will get jaded with the power level after a while

How so? He says that there are no gains with 91 octane, which would probably hurt his sales a bit. He also says from a "performance perspective" it is the same, as in it makes the same power the the F30 335i and M235i.

[Ex-MINI]

Originally Posted by kovsky

Yes, some people are not quite right in the head. Also, the JB4 setup is easy to remove and leaves no trace of any modifications.

Ha...yes I hear you. I've got a JB+ for my MINI...also easy to remove. But when people are talking about JB4 + an ECU tune then....

[Fab_R]

Some really good positives there.

[metrickid]

It already has its own thread, in the correct forum?!

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253475

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by metrickid

It already has its own thread, in the correct forum?!

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253475

woops didn't see it.

[weyland]

In the UK we get high quality 99 octane. I am presuming the ECU will auto adjust the timing - I wonder what this will make on 99?!