[omasou]

I get that people like to mod their cars and wish them well...my question is are there really any performance gains from these bolts ons w/o modifying the ECU? I know people are posting before and after dyno runs but what about a week later when the car adapts and removes those gains?

For example, BMW says the MPE provides zero performance gains b/c the turbo (or ECU forget which) adapts to compensate for the increased free flow. Sure if you like the sound have at it but are there really any gains to be had?

Then according to this http://www.catalyticconverter.org/ne...erter-&News=89 there is no such thing as a performance gain from a "high flow" cat or catless downpiple. Not sure who this source is and if they have an ax to grind or if they are truly trying to educate? Again, if you like the sound have at it but are there really any gains to be had?

[caminator]

MPE won't give you any gains because it doesn't improve flow, its just a nice noise.

Going catless allows you to get some power but it needs a map from something like a JB4 to get your hands on it.


From reading Terry's posts theres maybe 20-30hp to be gained on 93 octane with a decat, better intercooler and a tune.
More than that is in the realm of ethanol or turbo replacement.

The n54tech.com boards on the N55 cover it quite well. From a power perspective the M2 N55 is exactly the same as the other N55s BMW have released, just with a more aggressive tune from the factory. Internals should be stronger though.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by caminator

MPE won't give you any gains because it doesn't improve flow, its just a nice noise.

Going catless allows you to get some power but it needs a map from something like a JB4 to get your hands on it.

MPE

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/05/in...ormance-parts/

"There will be no power gains with an axle-back exhaust because the turbocharged engine will compensate to create the same amount of torque. It would be different with a naturally-aspirated engine, but not with the turbocharged engine."

Catless
My understanding of JB4 and catless is that it's deleting the CELs nothing more. Correct me if I'm wrong

[caminator]

Sorry I edited my post with some more info while you were responding

Incorrect, JB4 lets you modify a ton of stuff and has standard maps out the box for our car that will see a power increase

[omasou]

Originally Posted by caminator

Sorry I edited my post with some more info while you were responding

Incorrect, JB4 lets you modify a ton of stuff and has standard maps out the box for our car that will see a power increase

Read the thread. What I read was...it should be the same as the other N55s...BMW already tuned the crap out of this N55...not sure what more we can get out of it...stay tuned...

Edit:

91 - no improvements to be had
93 - should be based on past N55 experience, need more time to see what BMW did w/M2 or add bigger turbo, recommends Pure
93+ - don't care not going there. Don't have enough knowledge to not blow up engine or burn pistons and or values

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

There are 100% definitely performance gains to going with a high-flow cat or full cat bypass. The ECU will recognize higher flow and make a minor adjustment. This adjustment is not substantial enough to keep up with the amount of extra flow that a high-flow cat or catbypass. More airflow = more power.

I have had my Sport Cat on my car for almost a year now and it still pulls just as hard and definitely harder than stock. Check out our dyno graphs below of the power we made with our Sport Cat Downpipe.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

There are 100% definitely performance gains to going with a high-flow cat or full cat bypass. The ECU will recognize higher flow and make a minor adjustment. This adjustment is not substantial enough to keep up with the amount of extra flow that a high-flow cat or catbypass. More airflow = more power.
...

So you have to code the ECU to take full advantage, correct?

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by masou

So you have to code the ECU to take full advantage, correct?

Tuning the ECU will always maximize the power potential of aftermarket performance products. That does not mean that adding the hardware portions do not increase power as well because they do.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Tuning the ECU will always maximize the power potential of aftermarket performance products. That does not mean that adding the hardware portions do not increase power as well because they do.

Thanks!

When I get my car...I'll stop by...I'd like to learn more about the cat...looks like you have a nice shop.

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by masou

Thanks!

When I get my car...I'll stop by...I'd like to learn more about the cat...looks like you have a nice shop.

Definitely swing by the shop! I would be happy to show you around and how things operate here !

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by masou

I get that people like to mod their cars and wish them well...my question is are there really any performance gains from these bolts ons w/o modifying the ECU? I know people are posting before and after dyno runs but what about a week later when the car adapts and removes those gains?

For example, BMW says the MPE provides zero performance gains b/c the turbo (or ECU forget which) adapts to compensate for the increased free flow. Sure if you like the sound have at it but are there really any gains to be had?

Not sure where to start, but it sounds like you have been listening to the wrong people.

The dyno numbers you see are the gains you will be getting as long as you have the tune installed. ECU does not adjust or lower boost

MPE does not provide gains because stock exhaust already provides more than enough flow, it has nothing to do with the ECU adapting

As for downpipes, you will get 10-15whp increase when you remove the cats or go with high flow catted DP
On top of the gains, you will reduce back pressure on your turbo so that your tune can hit higher boost

[parrnan]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

There are 100% definitely performance gains to going with a high-flow cat or full cat bypass. The ECU will recognize higher flow and make a minor adjustment. This adjustment is not substantial enough to keep up with the amount of extra flow that a high-flow cat or catbypass. More airflow = more power.

I have had my Sport Cat on my car for almost a year now and it still pulls just as hard and definitely harder than stock. Check out our dyno graphs below of the power we made with our Sport Cat Downpipe.

Nice numbers ! A question, is this result has been obtained with the high flow cat and the mufller bypass or with both and an ECU reflash ?

[pup73]

Originally Posted by parrnan

Nice numbers ! A question, is this result has been obtained with the high flow cat and the mufller bypass or with both and an ECU reflash ?

I'll chime in; I believe this dyno is of my car; it is the Sport DP and Muffler bypass combo. Stock ECU.

In practical terms, subjectively I definitely feel a difference. Car just seems like it pulls a bit harder...

I still owe the forums a thorough review of my FabSpeed DP/Exhaust combo. But to sum up in one sentence, "It's awesome and I love it"

-c

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by parrnan

Nice numbers ! A question, is this result has been obtained with the high flow cat and the mufller bypass or with both and an ECU reflash ?

This dyno chart represents our Sport Cat Downpipe and Muffler Bypass Exhaust. No ECU flash was done to the car when dyno tested.

Originally Posted by pup73

I'll chime in; I believe this dyno is of my car; it is the Sport DP and Muffler bypass combo. Stock ECU.

In practical terms, subjectively I definitely feel a difference. Car just seems like it pulls a bit harder...

I still owe the forums a thorough review of my FabSpeed DP/Exhaust combo. But to sum up in one sentence, "It's awesome and I love it"

-c

Thanks for chiming in pup73! This is your dyno chart. I'm glad you are enjoying it !

[parrnan]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

This dyno chart represents our Sport Cat Downpipe and Muffler Bypass Exhaust. No ECU flash was done to the car when dyno tested.

Thanks for chiming in pup73! This is your dyno chart. I'm glad you are enjoying it !

Thanks!

Next year I'll probably look for a Fabspeed Sport cat downpipe for my M2 but here in Canada we're talking about $1,600 for the downpipe... Plus shipping, customs and the Canadian sale taxes. At the end of the day, the uninstalled downpipe cost us over $2,000. So it is certainly a painfull decision to take.

But I'm sure that it is an awesome product like all Fabspeed products!

[Twix]

Originally Posted by parrnan

Thanks!

Next year I'll probably look for a Fabspeed Sport cat downpipe for my M2 but here in Canada we're talking about $1,600 for the downpipe... Plus shipping, customs and the Canadian sale taxes. At the end of the day, the uninstalled downpipe cost us over $2,000. So it is certainly a painfull decision to take.

But I'm sure that it is an awesome product like all Fabspeed products!

You'd be better off buying a VRSF catless or an ER catless DP then doing the area 71 io2. More power.

I had issues with my N20 running a "sport" cat. The light came on no matter what we tried to do. Ran all sorts of O2 extenders and sample jets.

I can't see the N55 being much different.

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by parrnan

Thanks!

Next year I'll probably look for a Fabspeed Sport cat downpipe for my M2 but here in Canada we're talking about $1,600 for the downpipe... Plus shipping, customs and the Canadian sale taxes. At the end of the day, the uninstalled downpipe cost us over $2,000. So it is certainly a painfull decision to take.

But I'm sure that it is an awesome product like all Fabspeed products!

Thanks for the kind words! Check your PMs and maybe we can work something out!

Originally Posted by Twix

You'd be better off buying a VRSF catless or an ER catless DP then doing the area 71 io2. More power.

I had issues with my N20 running a "sport" cat. The light came on no matter what we tried to do. Ran all sorts of O2 extenders and sample jets.

I can't see the N55 being much different.

Our Sport Cat Downpipe does not trigger a CEL. I've had mine on for 15xxx hard miles and have not had one issue. We have had plenty of people run the Sport Cat Downpipe without a single issue of a CEL! It may be different for the N20 but I know the N55's respond perfectly to it!

[pup73]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Thanks for the kind words! Check your PMs and maybe we can work something out!



Our Sport Cat Downpipe does not trigger a CEL. I've had mine on for 15xxx hard miles and have not had one issue. We have had plenty of people run the Sport Cat Downpipe without a single issue of a CEL! It may be different for the N20 but I know the N55's respond perfectly to it!

No CEL with my Sport Cat DP...

-c