Changing Coolant on S63TU - is nobody doing this?

[AirBull]

My MY15 M5 turned the big Five in late February so I thought I would look into what it took to change the coolant. Especially for the M5's, it's like crickets in Google. Nothing. I called one local BMW specialty shop and he said he prefers not even to swap the coolant because you can break stuff filling it back up.

Filling it back up seems like the easy part. Get yourself a Schwaben Coolant Refill Air Purge tool and follow the instructions. Not sure about the BMW procedure for the electric water pump bleeding cycle, if that works on the F10, and whether or not that opens the thermostat.

Draining on the other hand, is a different story. BMW simply says to remove the fan cowl and disconnect the lower radiator hose. The closest I could find was like a 535 in the F10 forum, and obviously that isn't going to drain all the fluid in your system. In the M5 with the S63TU, there is more to it.

So what I am thinking is this. Disconnect the lower radiator hose, let it drain, and then also disconnect the lower hoses on the two auxiliary coolers for the charge air coolers. (Not sure how easy it is to access them, but surely they are intended to be serviced.) Then, I can suck out the fluid in the expansion tank for the charge air coolers and between it all, get out as much fluid as I can. Since I only change oil about once a year, I might consider doing this more often say every other year and by doing it more frequently, ensure that my coolant never gets too old.

Draining and topping up coolant (S63 B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...check/Hqu3hTEY

Venting and filling cooling system with vacuum filling unit
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...check/B9yoQmxG

Removing and installing/replacing left auxiliary coolant cooler (S63 B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...parts/I5rfbxaB

Removing and installing/replacing right auxiliary coolant cooler (S63 B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...parts/I5rjYaBL

Bleeding cooling system and checking for watertightness (S63 B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...trols/IIQKHzrr

[HeyKC]

I'm going to be honest this was/is on my list of things to do but since it looks like a pain I was going to use my hand pump and flush out coolant then refill. Drive it for a while after things have cycled and do it again. Don't judge me.

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by HeyKC

I'm going to be honest this was/is on my list of things to do but since it looks like a pain I was going to use my hand pump and flush out coolant then refill. Drive it for a while after things have cycled and do it again. Don't judge me.

BMW speciality shop quoted me $150 for the coolant and $100 for the intercoolers, which I believe he was inferring the two aux coolers for the charge air coolers. Probably worth the money but I do like to do what I can myself. I have four RennStands that I can get the BMW up on and that makes something like this all the more so easier.

[technician117]

I'm pretty sure you know this already but there are two separate cooling circuits. The charge air coolers and DME are separate from the main engine and turbo circuits. The marked up photo you posted covers the charge air/DME system. That is the reservoir on top of the engine. You will need to open and drain other hoses if you want to change the coolant in the other system/circuits.

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by technician117

I'm pretty sure you know this already but there are two separate cooling circuits. The charge air coolers and DME are separate from the main engine and turbo circuits. The marked up photo you posted covers the charge air/DME system. That is the reservoir on top of the engine. You will need to open and drain other hoses if you want to change the coolant in the other system/circuits.

This system was apparently not designed to have coolant flushed as a regular maintenance procedure; shy of removing every hose, the main expansion tank, heat exchanger, etc, you're just not going to get all the fluid out. This is why my one BMW indy shop said they recommend doing it every 4 years. I think the best you can do shy of taking every hose apart and pulling the engine, is probably the lower radiator hose and the two auxillary coolers for the charge air coolers; (essentially two smaller radiators.) The only thing I'm still uncertain of is the bleeding procedure; not sure if my Foxwell scanner has a "map thermostat" mode as described in the BMW bleeding procedure below; or if it's truly even necessary.

Venting cooling system: Note:
Do not leave the coolant expansion tank sealing cap open during the bleeding procedure.

Switch on the low-beam headlights to perform the bleeding procedure. If the low-beam headlights are not switched on, the ignition (Terminal 15) will switch off automatically after a certain period of time and interrupt the bleeding procedure.

1. Open vent plugs on coolant feed lines to turbocharger.
2. Add coolant to the upper edge of the expansion tank. The coolant level must no drop. No drop in coolant for approx. 1 minute. Close the bleeder screws of the exhaust turbocharger when coolant emerges.
3. Set heating to maximum temperature. Press the automatic button. Then reduce the blower to the smallest level for a minimum time of 5 minutes.
4. Driving experience switch must not be set to ECO PRO!
5. After the heating pump is switched off, continue adding coolant to the upper edge of the expansion tank.
6. Check cooling system for leaks.
7. Close expansion tank.
8. Start engine. Let the engine idle for approx. 1 minute. During this time, press on the accelerator 3 x for 5 s each to approx. 3000 rpm.
9. Warm up engine and activate map thermostat via BMW diagnosis system.
10. When engine has cooled down, check coolant level and adjust to max.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...trols/IIQKHzrr

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by technician117

I'm pretty sure you know this already but there are two separate cooling circuits. The charge air coolers and DME are separate from the main engine and turbo circuits. The marked up photo you posted covers the charge air/DME system. That is the reservoir on top of the engine. You will need to open and drain other hoses if you want to change the coolant in the other system/circuits.

I mistakenly thought they were all going through the same radiator, though. I didn't realize there a secondary smaller radiator for the charge air system in front of the main radiator for the engine. It's important to note that in that diagram reference in my previous post of the cooling circuit for the charge air system, that is the smaller radiator in front of the main radiator. Not sure how easy it is to drain either of these, Looks like maybe I can get to the charge air radiator from the bottom but that indeed, the main radiator has to come from the top (what a PITA to catch all that fluid) as the manual seems to imply that you have to remove the fan cowl to get to it. This is why BMW says the coolant is lifetime. Haha.


Removing and installing/replacing charge air cooler (S63, B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...parts/IHLZtKxV

Bleeding cooling system for charge air cooler (S63 B44 T 0)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...parts/IGoEfwRm

[M5Rick]

Isn't it enough to check that if the anti freeze strength is within limits it's not worth to render changing it.

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Isn't it enough to check that if the anti freeze strength is within limits it's not worth to render changing it.

I think that may be a good place to start. BMW says the coolant is lifetime, so I'm not sure it'd be worth asking a BMW dealer what they would charge to swap coolant because A) coolant flush for the sake of changing the coolant and flushing the old fluid is not an actual BMW procedure for the F10 M5, and B) even if they took my money and said they were going to do something, I'd have to ask myself "well what did they really do?"

I had one indy BMW shop say they could do a main coolant flush for one price and an additional fee for a similar procedure on the intercoolers but I also then had two more local indy shops say that it's a closed system and as long as you haven't had to break into it, they don't recommend it.

So, given that my M5 only has a tad over 10k miles, time would be the only thing working against my fluid. I agree with your notion to get some test strips and test the pH of the coolant to best determine when I may need to replace the coolant. I ordered some GWR RadStrips off eBay that say are good to test for HOAT and I'll see where I'm at.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by AirBull

I think that may be a good place to start. BMW says the coolant is lifetime, so I'm not sure it'd be worth asking a BMW dealer what they would charge to swap coolant because A) coolant flush for the sake of changing the coolant and flushing the old fluid is not an actual BMW procedure for the F10 M5, and B) even if they took my money and said they were going to do something, I'd have to ask myself "well what did they really do?"

I had one indy BMW shop say they could do a main coolant flush for one price and an additional fee for a similar procedure on the intercoolers but I also then had two more local indy shops say that it's a closed system and as long as you haven't had to break into it, they don't recommend it.

So, given that my M5 only has a tad over 10k miles, time would be the only thing working against my fluid. I agree with your notion to get some test strips and test the pH of the coolant to best determine when I may need to replace the coolant. I ordered some GWR RadStrips off eBay that say are good to test for HOAT and I'll see where I'm at.

I can answer that as I'm on,only 10k miles...I wouldn't bother, it don't need it.

[JC04]

According newtis.info coolant should be changed every 4 years for non M cars, and every 3 years for M cars.

I'm thinking about changing it myself too because I have free time nowadays, and I have the Coolant Refill Air Purge tools to refill without introducing air to the coolant system. However, I'm unsure why there's a need to bleed the coolant system afterwards but it's in the instruction.

I have changed coolant using the Coolant Refill Air Purge for many Japanese cars and I didn't need to bleed the coolant system afterwards at all. The tech manual for all those cars called to bleed the coolant system afterwards, but I never had to because the tool prevented air entering the coolant system. I think BMW just being extra careful. This is just my opinion

Another part I'm a bit unsure is the secondary coolant system. It has instructions how to remove it but the manual doesn't call to replace it as a maintenance item.

I also wondering did you get it done or have the dealer done it?

[bbellz]

Originally Posted by JC04

According newtis.info coolant should be changed every 4 years for non M cars, and every 3 years for M cars.

I'm thinking about changing it myself too because I have free time nowadays, and I have the Coolant Refill Air Purge tools to refill without introducing air to the coolant system. However, I'm unsure why there's a need to bleed the coolant system afterwards but it's in the instruction.

I have changed coolant using the Coolant Refill Air Purge for many Japanese cars and I didn't need to bleed the coolant system afterwards at all. The tech manual for all those cars called to bleed the coolant system afterwards, but I never had to because the tool prevented air entering the coolant system. I think BMW just being extra careful. This is just my opinion

Another part I'm a bit unsure is the secondary coolant system. It has instructions how to remove it but the manual doesn't call to replace it as a maintenance item.

I also wondering did you get it done or have the dealer done it?

Would you share a link to the Coolant Refill tool you referenced? Thx

[JC04]

Originally Posted by bbellz

Would you share a link to the Coolant Refill tool you referenced? Thx

https://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-...8285907&sr=8-2

That's what I have. You also need a compressor for it to work. Look up youtube on how to use it.

[JC04]

I looked over the requirements for coolant, and it looks like cars with CBS after 9/2003 don't need to change coolant. Interesting.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...-check/1DUJMrq

[rockyfeller]

"Lifetime" coolant. "Lifetime" transmission fluid. Who's lifetime? Lol. Does it logically make sense? IMO there's no such thing.

BMW is not alone, nearly every auto manufacturer claims the same for certain items. We've been lied to for years. I think their view is that they know that the fluid will last longer than your maintenance agreement or warranty in the majority of cases. By claiming it's "lifetime" they get out of having to replace it during that time period. After your warranty is up, the truth is that they want you in one of their new cars! It's all about the money.

If your car breaks down after that time period, just see. They will claim you didn't change the fluid and it's your fault! It happened to me with my old Acura and Honda's notoriously terrible transmissions.

Better to do your due diligence and do fluid changes more often than not. Fluid/preventative maintenance is cheaper and gives peace of mind.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by rockyfeller

"Lifetime" coolant. "Lifetime" transmission fluid. Who's lifetime? Lol. Does it logically make sense? IMO there's no such thing.

BMW is not alone, nearly every auto manufacturer claims the same for certain items. We've been lied to for years. I think their view is that they know that the fluid will last longer than your maintenance agreement or warranty in the majority of cases. By claiming it's "lifetime" they get out of having to replace it during that time period. After your warranty is up, the truth is that they want you in one of their new cars! It's all about the money.

If your car breaks down after that time period, just see. They will claim you didn't change the fluid and it's your fault! It happened to me with my old Acura and Honda's notoriously terrible transmissions.

Better to do your due diligence and do fluid changes more often than not. Fluid/preventative maintenance is cheaper and gives peace of mind.

I don't know, there are things in those factory fluids that off the shelf ones do not have. For instance in our CLK it is said on the blogs the factory coolant should not be changed as special additives are in the factory fill coolant.
The danger is if know nots have topped up with red coolant or some other so if you know yours has not then leave it and top up if needed with the BMW coolant mix. The coolant in both the tanks is clear green/blue so leaving well alone.

[rockyfeller]

Yeah, good point. I agree. I'm sure there are some rare exceptions like that.

But for the majority of systems using pretty much ordinary variety fluids, wear is wear. Going over 100k is a lot of miles. You can't expect fluids to last 7 yrs. or 10yrs+. If you drained that fluid, just take a look at it. Nothing close to the new fluid.

[TMullenjr]

I had to replace my A/C condenser on my '14 M5 (F10), which means I had to remove the radiator. Since I needed to do that, I figured it's a good time to replace the coolant. I was surprised that the current coolant was green, and not the typical blue coolant from BMW. Does this require special coolant, or can I use the standard BMW coolant?

[Droner]

Originally Posted by TMullenjr

I had to replace my A/C condenser on my '14 M5 (F10), which means I had to remove the radiator. Since I needed to do that, I figured it's a good time to replace the coolant. I was surprised that the current coolant was green, and not the typical blue coolant from BMW. Does this require special coolant, or can I use the standard BMW coolant?

It should be the blue stuff. Sounds like someone changed it before.