[Oli]

Ive wanted one since as long as I can remember!

Im going to be in the market for one in the new year, but cant decide(but like to plan ahead);

Get a 997 C2S, let the wife use it and when we need to use a bigger vehicle use the T5 Kombi or one of my hire cars.......

...or get a 964 C4, and keep a decent monday to friday car for the wife!

I use a works vehicle monday to friday if that helps?

Any thoughts on the two cars in question?

[Carrera RSR]

964 RS

[Oli]

I wish!

[peterg1965]

997 C2S - If the price was right I would have had one over the Z4.

[F31-340i]

I think the main thing is that you get one. In some ways the 964 is my least favourite 911, but they are still awesome, and would be great to own. They had issues with dual mass flywheels, and oil leaks, but you can read about that on ph etc. The 997 is a different proposition.

My 3.2 Carrera has been a real hoot the last few days - I only really regret not getting it 10 years ago. I'm actually thinking of getting a 997, but I'm not selling the 3.2!

[rickwjenn]

Get the latest model 911 you can.

This has always been great advice for Porsche 911s.

They are all great IMO and got better with each generation.

I have owned 911SC, 930 Turbo, 993, 996, and currently a 996 Turbo. Been looking real hard at buying the 997 Turbo as well in the next year or so.

[chrisbin]

All depends on whether you want to lose money in depreciation or not imo.....

997 will be much more rounded in ability, but 964 will have the character....

[Hoops]

I loved my 997 C2S - would definitely have another just wouldnt touch the Tiptronic again with a barge pole!! Find a low milage 997 C2S, Manual, with all the toys and ideally with the PSE exhaust and you cant go wrong. Just be very wary of some of the AWFUL leather colour options as they can be very difficult to sell on. I had the special order Cocoa leather plus the special order metallic silver (forget the name of it??) and the combo of the two was devine. But the garish reds etc are just too much. The Sat Nav unit is poo but you need it for resale value - but driving position and handling is sublime and the cabin is a very nice place to be. Personally i still think the 997 holds its own in terms of looks and doesnt appear dated by comparison to current edition. Only other slight grumble (but i lived with it) was the lack of real power - considering its recognised as a super car status by some it certainly doesnt have super car power - i was similarly disappointed with the AMV8 but again you happily forgive it on the grounds of the looks and sound alone!! Buy one, you wont be disappointed.

[Doc GTO]

997 all the way. Find a nice low milage one with CPO warranty and have no worries! I love my 997 C2S!

[Oli]

Im 90% sure on a 997 C2S, but a lot can change between now and december! I quite like the 996 C4S, but if Im spending that money, I might as well get a 997.

[beemerbird]

FWIW Oli, I'd go for the 997 C2S in manual with a short shift gear lever or get one retro-fitted, the gear box is sweet and I mean sweet, best 'box' I've ever had me little mits on in both the Cayman S and a C2S I had as a loan car once. The precision is impressive and for my money, the newer 997 is just perfectly honed for the driver in every respect and an updated interior to boot. Oh and they sound VERY tasty with a sports exhaust too, so distinctive. Engine is silky smooth and everything just flows right from a pure driving point of view.

Just my two-penneth.

[Oli]

Don't worry it will definitely be a manual! Thanks for the advice.

[Real Thing]

Originally Posted by STEVIEHOOPS

I loved my 997 C2S - would definitely have another just wouldnt touch the Tiptronic again with a barge pole!! Find a low milage 997 C2S, Manual, with all the toys and ideally with the PSE exhaust and you cant go wrong. Just be very wary of some of the AWFUL leather colour options as they can be very difficult to sell on. I had the special order Cocoa leather plus the special order metallic silver (forget the name of it??) and the combo of the two was devine. But the garish reds etc are just too much. The Sat Nav unit is poo but you need it for resale value - but driving position and handling is sublime and the cabin is a very nice place to be. Personally i still think the 997 holds its own in terms of looks and doesnt appear dated by comparison to current edition. Only other slight grumble (but i lived with it) was the lack of real power - considering its recognised as a super car status by some it certainly doesnt have super car power - i was similarly disappointed with the AMV8 but again you happily forgive it on the grounds of the looks and sound alone!! Buy one, you wont be disappointed.

Would probably agree about the Tiptronic but If your budget stretches to the Gen 11 Cars the PDK gearbox is a completely different animal lot more like the DSG boxes of the VW and in the performance stakes I would say that the C4S wasn't that far behind the 997 Turbo Tip-Tronic I had and with the 7 speed I could easy get the low 30s mpg on a motorway run.

Just saw your reply Oli regarding the Manual but thought I leave my two-penneth in as well

[creepy coupe]

Oli 996 interiors are a bit pants TBH and even in the 997's it has a fussy layout, as per Stevie, the nav is pants and the Bluetooth’s not worth a toss, you need to slide your sim card in the cars dash and last time I checked you could get two sim cards for the same number.

The negs over, try and get one with bi-Xenons as they make them look a bit more up to date, I don’t know your budget, but you need to get a post June 2009 car for the latest nav and Bluetooth which is something special, with it's touch screen and 3d maps.

Driving one, well you'll love it I'm sure, but I agree with Stevie on the everyday available power/torque point, you do need to cog them down a couple before they howl.

[beemerbird]

Porsche manufacture sports cars - end of. They don't take a mass produced vehicle, in effect, and add glitzy bits and gadgets to it, alter suspension and steering geometry etc and charge more calling it a sports car. I've discussed these points with long serving Porsche salesmen who admit that Porsche are a bit slow to keep up with the 'gadget' technology. However Porsche themselves really do not seem that bothered, they argue you buy a Porsche, you are buying a sports car. Its soul purpose in 'life' and the gadgets will be in the bits you don't see.

Take the R8 V10 I had an enjoyable 'play' in. Fantastic car BUT again compared to the Porsche Turbo is still more sanitised, less raw, bit less involving but the interior and the quality is superb and of course, with all the gadgets. So, the R8's definitely look a balls out sports car and to a great extent they are but Audi still won't relent imo and be as single minded as Porsche. But then Porsche were and are single minded from the very start.

I agree re. the performance, they need revving but is that what some construe as driver involvement, makes you feel you are tanking on because of the engine noise, but then a M3 needs revving and I'm pretty sure the RS5 may be similar looking at the figures. Hence the Porsche Turbo is such a beast with bhp and torque.

Some people don't like the steering of a Porsche on a motorway because of that very slight oscillation of the steering wheel, but want a car with VERY communicative steering through the twisties, then that's what you get.

[Hoops]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

I agree re. the performance, they need revving but is that what some construe as driver involvement...

Not entirely sure i would construe having to rev the nuts out of a car as "driver involvement" but i think i see what you are saying - i certainly prefer to have to work a little at getting a car going than just sitting there and letting it do its thing. I was just personally quite disappointed with the power performance of my C2S, im sure the fact it was a Tip as opposed to a manual played a part but then my mates manual C4S wasnt much better either, albeit heavier due to the 4x4 etc. For some reason i just expected the Porker to be quicker simply because it was a "911 Porker" and ive always held them in such high esteem - and this attributed to the disappointment i think. Ive driven quite a few 997 Turbos and they are in a completely different class and so pointless to compare here. I agree with the PDK comment but not sure thats within Oli's budget?

[Oli]

Ive driven a load of 996's including Turbos, and a series 1 997 Targa 4S, and thoroughly enjoyed it, not the quickest, but fast enough, and I will be going 2S anyway. The manual gearbox is sweet in the 911, not interested in the tip.

Anyone want to buy a fully loaded 335D............

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by STEVIEHOOPS

Not entirely sure i would construe having to rev the nuts out of a car as "driver involvement" but i think i see what you are saying - i certainly prefer to have to work a little at getting a car going than just sitting there and letting it do its thing. I was just personally quite disappointed with the power performance of my C2S, im sure the fact it was a Tip as opposed to a manual played a part but then my mates manual C4S wasnt much better either, albeit heavier due to the 4x4 etc. For some reason i just expected the Porker to be quicker simply because it was a "911 Porker" and ive always held them in such high esteem - and this attributed to the disappointment i think. Ive driven quite a few 997 Turbos and they are in a completely different class and so pointless to compare here. I agree with the PDK comment but not sure thats within Oli's budget?

That was a 'tongue in cheek' comment and a dig at some journos who insist that unless you have to rev the bollocks out of an engine and be able to hang the back end out, then the car lacks driver involvement. It's like they haven't grown up yet or constantly drive on a track.

The tiptronic muted the overall driving experience in a 997 T I drove even with all that performance on tap, certainly for me anyhow. Owning and living with a manual 997 T is altogether different. Getting out of Generation I Cayman S into a 997 C2S one notices the power increase therefore all relative and positive for the C2S together with the silky smooth engine etc, etc.

Funningly enough, even though I've not driven any of the AM models, looking at the 'stats', some don't exactly 'blow the mind'. Perhaps they are in a similar vain as some Porsche models in as far as it's the whole 'experience' as much as the performance.

So Oli, is your mind made up for the C2S then?

[Oli]

Yes, Im thinking so! Just need to sort the next few months out - very busy at work, then start the new year with a Porka!

[Doc GTO]

The 997s have a sport short shifter option. My car came with one. Nice and tight, just how I like it!

[davyk31]

Do you really want the wife using a 997 as an everyday car, leaving in in all the dodgy supermarket carparks and doing the school run etc .......think i would have to have a cheapo runaround for that and keep the Porsche pristine.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Porsche manufacture sports cars - end of. They don't take a mass produced vehicle, in effect, and add glitzy bits and gadgets to it, alter suspension and steering geometry etc and charge more calling it a sports car. I've discussed these points with long serving Porsche salesmen who admit that Porsche are a bit slow to keep up with the 'gadget' technology. However Porsche themselves really do not seem that bothered, they argue you buy a Porsche, you are buying a sports car. Its soul purpose in 'life' and the gadgets will be in the bits you don't see.

I think it's more to do with the fact they still sell cars, even though they are a bit backwards in coming forward with kit, take the crappy sim car system they use in pre Gen 2 models as an example, you have to look at mid 2009 cars to get Bluetooth and the sports exhaust button, what's that if not a gimmick, but there's no denying they still offer desirable motors.