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      03-17-2012, 03:58 PM   #1
AlpWhite11
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CAR Magazine - M5 F10 against E36 AMG and Jaguar XFR

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Can't wait till this hits the US newstands so I can pick up a copy. Car always has the best photos. And the results not so bad here too

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http://www.**************.com/intern...z-e63-amg.html

Last edited by AlpWhite11; 03-17-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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      03-17-2012, 04:17 PM   #2
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What a superb review!! Thanks for posting! Long live the King!!
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      03-17-2012, 05:31 PM   #3
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It seems a bit curious that the BMW dyno'd with 16.5% less power that stated. BMW is generally fairly conservative with their numbers I have experienced. Love the last sentence though; means to me, this is not a car you will likely get bored with.
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      03-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M5Canuck View Post
It seems a bit curious that the BMW dyno'd with 16.5% less power that stated. BMW is generally fairly conservative with their numbers I have experienced. Love the last sentence though; means to me, this is not a car you will likely get bored with.
I am curious on those numbers as well- do they just use TOTAL gas or do they change out the oil as well? I have rarely seen a BMW M dyne less than the power it should be... could have been a badly abused press car not properly broken in- but imagine the numbers if it was true powered?
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      03-18-2012, 03:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M5Canuck View Post
It seems a bit curious that the BMW dyno'd with 16.5% less power that stated. BMW is generally fairly conservative with their numbers I have experienced. Love the last sentence though; means to me, this is not a car you will likely get bored with.
It's power at the wheels, which is different than power at flywheel due to drivetrain loss.
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      03-18-2012, 03:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M5Canuck View Post
It seems a bit curious that the BMW dyno'd with 16.5% less power that stated. BMW is generally fairly conservative with their numbers I have experienced. Love the last sentence though; means to me, this is not a car you will likely get bored with.
It's power at the wheels, which is different than power at flywheel due to drivetrain loss.
Yep, it is expected on average of 15% drivetrain loss when dyno at the wheels. So add 15% to the hp is what the engine produces.
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      03-18-2012, 04:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
I am curious on those numbers as well- do they just use TOTAL gas or do they change out the oil as well? I have rarely seen a BMW M dyne less than the power it should be... could have been a badly abused press car not properly broken in- but imagine the numbers if it was true powered?
A low-Dyno on a BMW -that's a rarity!
But this is a British mag right?

But the car got a crazy 0-100kmh, 4.32s without launch control. It was 0.65s faster than the E63. And the E63 was showing higher dyno figures (relative to stated) -go figure.

The larger displacement of the E63 cries out for an output boost /tune. Seems more precarious with the M5, you would want to keep it stock, BMW has wrung out a lot performance from the engine already.
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      03-18-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
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I find it hard to believe a CLS63 is faster around the track than the new f10 M5. Maybe the stig was driving the merc and my grandma was driving the bimmer...

It all makes sense now!
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      03-18-2012, 04:38 PM   #9
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South African CAR Mag was my favourite car publication growing up. My mom still keeps issues for me to read on my annual trips home :-)
I wish I could have my car back there - beautiful scenery, and twisty mountain roads in the Western Cape (where CAR magazine HQ is) or long straight arid Karoo just beyond that, many opportunities to just flog the snot out of it.

Now, why I am happy to stay in the USA:

New M5 price in SA R1,157,000 (incl 14%VAT), thats R1,014,000 excl and at todays exchange, $134,000. US expected price is +-$95,000. So looks like I have to get one, it will never be this cheap :-)

For comparison, my 08 M5 with reasonable miles would be approx $75,000 in SA, again +-33% lower here. Then factor in the gas price - SA about R11 per liter, that's $5.50 per gal.

So my car would have cost $75,000 and it would cost me $90 to fill up (and go 200miles..)
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      03-18-2012, 04:42 PM   #10
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I would trust these numbers. E63 4.9 0-60, was my 3 year old driving it? All other magazines show it almost identical with the M5. And how could the CLS with the same engine and weight be faster?
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      03-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #11
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My biggest surprise is M5 having 52/48 weight distribution and that Jag having the same.

I thought the M5 supposed to have even better weight distribution than the regular 5-Series since the engine is shorter, mounted lower and towards the back. I didn't expect anything less that 50/50 on it.

That Jaguar, I always expected it to have FWD like balance thinking it's way more front-heavy, guess not!!
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      03-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I would trust these numbers. E63 4.9 0-60, was my 3 year old driving it? All other magazines show it almost identical with the M5. And how could the CLS with the same engine and weight be faster?
It says in the article the CLS63 was putting down better than expected numbers, even though Benz said it didn't have the perf pack. The E63 also did not have the perf pack, as you can see from their dyno runs. I agree that most mags have the new M5 and E63 being almost identical in speed, maybe the E63 having a little more top end.
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      03-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #13
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Here is the CLS63 comparo they refer to a couple times in the article.



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      03-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
A low-Dyno on a BMW -that's a rarity!
But this is a British mag right?

But the car got a crazy 0-100kmh, 4.32s without launch control. It was 0.65s faster than the E63. And the E63 was showing higher dyno figures (relative to stated) -go figure.

The larger displacement of the E63 cries out for an output boost /tune. Seems more precarious with the M5, you would want to keep it stock, BMW has wrung out a lot performance from the engine already.
That's quite wrong. Any motor from the factory with 552hp is built to last. If it was on it's last legs, it wouldn't have 552 hp. In fact, tuners of the same motor in the X5M and X6M are extracting another 100hp in just a tune alone.
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      03-18-2012, 06:47 PM   #15
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Jaguar ?? Has haaa Lol
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      03-18-2012, 06:49 PM   #16
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ARE THEY BLIND?

Jaguar is among the ugliest cars with the cheapest looking cabins you can find nowadays. try to open that door on that Jag, oh yeah, sounds like a piece of cheap plastic about to fall off

Jaguar has never been and certainly not on the same level as far as quality, design concerned, but it'll compete comfortably with 2nd tier "luxury" cars like Infiniti and Acura, it doesn't deserve a spot where Benz, BMW, Audi and Lexus are at.
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      03-18-2012, 07:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HMtheJJ View Post
ARE THEY BLIND?

Jaguar is among the ugliest cars with the cheapest looking cabins you can find nowadays. try to open that door on that Jag, oh yeah, sounds like a piece of cheap plastic about to fall off

Jaguar has never been and certainly not on the same level as far as quality, design concerned, but it'll compete comfortably with 2nd tier "luxury" cars like Infiniti and Acura, it doesn't deserve a spot where Benz, BMW, Audi and Lexus are at.
and Lexus... you had a point until you mentioned lexus - jaguar is more sporty than Lexus at least.

But anyway I think the article shows Jag has come a long way. Looks and feel are subjective so I am ok with Jaguar taking the trophy there.

Mercedes AMG does not have LSD standard, WOW. Mercedes really sucks, I thought it was bad LSD was not an option on the 3 series, at least all M's have it (at least for now....)
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      03-18-2012, 07:22 PM   #18
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thanks for posting this up
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      03-18-2012, 09:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Here is the CLS63 comparo they refer to a couple times in the article.




it couldnt have been this one, the times are different..

here they're around 2:00 minutes, and in the above mentioned they are around 1:24 with the cls being the fastest.
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      03-18-2012, 09:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sle39lvr
My biggest surprise is M5 having 52/48 weight distribution and that Jag having the same.

I thought the M5 supposed to have even better weight distribution than the regular 5-Series since the engine is shorter, mounted lower and towards the back. I didn't expect anything less that 50/50 on it.

That Jaguar, I always expected it to have FWD like balance thinking it's way more front-heavy, guess not!!
that changes when you calculate fuel in the tank.
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      03-18-2012, 09:57 PM   #21
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Standardized Testing

I wish that we had standardized testing for things like ride quality. It seems so subjective like peoples rating of food and wine. Why can't cars be tested on a single road test course and a computer monitor car movement to give a standardized measure of ride quality. The same could be done for steering effort and body roll. I think that would be more useful in trying to get a feel for car that you have not driven yet. Does something like this exist? I have driven the Jag and the Merc and did not come away with the same impression. So had I not experienced the cars myself I may have bought a Jag based on this review!
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      03-18-2012, 10:07 PM   #22
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I love reading these reviews. It takes me back to the E39 M5.
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