01-20-2015, 05:11 AM | #68 | |
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01-20-2015, 05:11 AM | #69 | |
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The concept of a company making profit from RD is lost of some people. I am yet to see a business stay running by offering their product for free
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01-20-2015, 08:05 AM | #70 | |
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If you go to McDonald's and you're driving a $100k car, guess what? The price of your happy meal goes up 300%. Poor AMS, Those tuners like ESS, Mike Benvo etc. selling tunes for less than a $1,000, arent making a profit. |
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01-20-2015, 09:54 AM | #71 | |
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01-20-2015, 10:11 AM | #72 | |
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Huge difference in a piggyback which is the same hardware for any car, but with different settings depending which car it's used on. Doing a full ECU flash on the Fxx currently involves paying a supplier (like BR Performance in Belgium) for the solution to break encryption and then R&D in rewriting the software to tune the car. But, of course over time cost usually comes down, especially if these costs can be divided on a large number of sales. Like on the ESS E-Tronic tuner, which is the exact same hardware for all of the cars they offer it for. Many might even have the same software settings. And anyway, there are only very few parametres that can be adjusted on such a product so the R&D time/cost is just a fraction of doing a ECU flash... IMO, a piggyback is like the dollar menu at McDonalds when a ECU flash is like having a 8 course meal at a fancy restaurant Last edited by Boss330; 01-20-2015 at 10:18 AM.. |
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01-20-2015, 10:50 AM | #73 |
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Great analogy. Seriously though, anyone who still believes a piggyback is better though needs to think seriously about why so many cars have had drivetrain malfunction issues and what this will do to the cars in the long run.
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01-20-2015, 11:11 AM | #74 | |
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Relax peasant First of all, no one said anything about 5k for tune. We are talking about 3k that everyone is crying about so let's stay on topic. Wheels and tires matter and matter a whole lot due to unsprung wheel weight and performance of tires. I would gladly pay 5k for wheels that weigh 19lb per corner and super sticky performance tires that deliver maximum grip per corner. My super light 5k wheels and tires probably give more performance than BS air intakes and section 3 exhaust that everyone love to show off that cost just the same as the 3k tune. 3k is not the end of the world especially if you are paying 100k for a car in the first place. I understand concerns about not wanting engine trouble/warranty and that argument is valid but to keep harping about how the tune should be 1k is silly. The market determines if 3k is too steep and if it is then no one will get the tune but i suspect that will not be the case. Besides, no one is forcing anyone to go tune their car for 3k. Stay with the BS/Cheap a** piggy and be happy already
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01-20-2015, 02:49 PM | #77 |
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mmmmhm. excuse me but who else has been able to crack this ecu other than this "japanese imports" tuner? everyone is so condescending on this forum, its too much sometimes!
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01-20-2015, 03:49 PM | #78 | |
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More and more tuners, including US, are now getting their hands on this solution that allows software flash of the Fxx gen DME. What the tuners get from this is the pwd to get access to the software. They can also buy the software (tune) from BR I guess, but the pwd is what enables them to start writing/modifying the software and make their own tune. |
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01-20-2015, 03:51 PM | #79 | |
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01-20-2015, 07:24 PM | #80 | ||||||
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Last edited by halfbent; 01-20-2015 at 09:03 PM.. |
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01-20-2015, 08:15 PM | #81 | |
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Honestly what other BMW forefront has AMS stamped it's name into? They are nowhere near the level of Turner, Dinan, or even the JB4 for all I care. |
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01-20-2015, 09:18 PM | #82 |
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hi everyone my car is getting tune right now with no piggy back by a local shop that build high performance BMW. i had bms. they are going to dyno it with the bms and after with the flush. i will let u guys know the result when i get it back. my car has AMS cattless dp ,full meisterschaft exhaust, filters and meth. hopefully in the high 600whp.
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01-20-2015, 11:55 PM | #83 | |
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I wouldn't pay 3 grand for a tune, no way Jose. That's just me... |
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01-21-2015, 12:06 AM | #84 | |
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I was mistaken, the M tax doesnt exist. The R&D on the M5 is more expensive therefore the ECU flash is ridiculously expensive. |
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01-21-2015, 01:14 AM | #85 |
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You are welcome to your opinion, but I have already had my ECUs remapped and I feel it was worth every $.
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01-21-2015, 01:54 AM | #86 | ||
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I tried to explain the difference in cost between a piggyback and a flash tune. If you read my post you will see that I do not mention M cars once, nor do I deny M tax or say that 3k is a decent price... I actually refer to Fxx cars and the cost of flashing compared to a generic piggyback that can be used on allmost any turbocharged engine with just minor tweaks for the different applications. Since it seemed you where a bit confused on the difference in cost between a flash and a piggyback I felt that explaining some basics was needed (esp since you compared the cost of a flash tune with the cost of a ESS piggyback...). BTW, ESS doesn't seem to have M tax on their piggybacks. Same price for a 320i tune as for a M4 tune. Simply because it's the EXACT same hardware for both cars with possibly just a few minor tweaks on the software settings... My bet is that ESS have a much higher profit margin on each piggyback they sell than what a tuner developing a flash tune has! |
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