New VW recall stops sales of GTIs ...

[RWDdrifter]

Yikes, VW is in a world of hurt. First they got caught cheating on NO emissions for 4-cyl diesels. Then they revealed that they had cheated on CO2 emissions for 6-cyl diesels. Today they revealed a safety recall on 2015-16 1.8l and 2.0l gas vehicles, including the GTI.

The rear camshaft lob is prone to failure. That puts the motor in "limp home" mode, but also causes a significant loss in braking power assist which is the safety issue.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/04/v...shaft-failure/

http://www.goapr.com/tsp/3f4b0448-ab...108ccf2271.pdf

[Viffermike]

And about this time last year, I was hot, hot, HOT to order a PP-equipped Golf GTI.

Then, the heavens began to show me the way to BMW.



Interesting that the CO2 controversy is also affecting some Porsche models. Wonder if Audi's next. Unintended acceleration, part deux?

[adema24]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

And about this time last year, I was hot, hot, HOT to order a PP-equipped Golf GTI.

Then, the heavens began to show me the way to BMW.



Interesting that the CO2 controversy is also affecting some Porsche models. Wonder if Audi's next. Unintended acceleration, part deux?

Haha dang man I was in the same boat!

But yeah, VW is in a world of hurt. The gti is one of their top sellers, and every car magazine is in love with it.

Time to sit back and

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

And about this time last year, I was hot, hot, HOT to order a PP-equipped Golf GTI.

Then, the heavens began to show me the way to BMW.



Interesting that the CO2 controversy is also affecting some Porsche models. Wonder if Audi's next. Unintended acceleration, part deux?

You remember the Audi 5000 issue! I bought an Audi GT Coupe very cheap because of the bad press Audi was getting. I think they are airing all the dirty laundry they can all at once.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

You remember the Audi 5000 issue! I bought an Audi GT Coupe very cheap because of the bad press Audi was getting. I think they are airing all the dirty laundry they can all at once.

Yeah I think its kind of BS. Yes they lied about some things, I am willing to bet every single manufacturer is doing something iffy with emissions, they were just the first to get caught.

Id be willing to bet lots of US cars are just as bad at skirting emissions.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

Yeah I think its kind of BS. Yes they lied about some things, I am willing to bet every single manufacturer is doing something iffy with emissions, they were just the first to get caught.

Id be willing to bet lots of US cars are just as bad at skirting emissions.

Better keep your money! I spent 30 years in the industry and this is the most egregious, intentionally-deceptive, fraudulent action by any auto maker to violate regulations in several countries. The trade papers are filled with incredulity by a range of industry experts and participants at the outrageousness of what VW did. This goes beyond cover-ups of prior misdeeds, which has occurred more often (in car companies as well as in politics!!). This was a planned, intentional program designed to deceive from the outset when they could not meet the program objectives. Michael Horn of VWUSA has admitted as much and CEOs are not usually dismissed for anything less.

In this case, engineers at other companies (particularly one known by two initials) were called in and challenged by very senior management to match VW results without necessitating the addition of urea to meet emissions requirements and could not figure out how to achieve it...and failed to match VW's results with their diesel compact. It takes a certain hubris to think they can get away with this in so widespread a violation.

[uberspeed]

I just find it difficult to believe it was such a small group of people involved...

[DanG]

By the way, Audi is involved. The A3 tdi has the same engine as the Golf diesel.

[Merc for hire]

I always wondered the engineering reason why you had to remove the front bumper to replace a headlight bulb on any Audi. How I think I know...

[doccyber]

I feel bad for VW owners.

[tbonez3858]

Originally Posted by doccyber

I feel bad for VW owners.

I cant imagine buying a car based upon a lie only to lose half the value and potentially a great deal of the performance of the car by the "fix"...

[Pyewacket69]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Better keep your money! I spent 30 years in the industry and this is the most egregious, intentionally-deceptive, fraudulent action by any auto maker to violate regulations in several countries. The trade papers are filled with incredulity by a range of industry experts and participants at the outrageousness of what VW did. This goes beyond cover-ups of prior misdeeds, which has occurred more often (in car companies as well as in politics!!). This was a planned, intentional program designed to deceive from the outset when they could not meet the program objectives. Michael Horn of VWUSA has admitted as much and CEOs are not usually dismissed for anything less.

In this case, engineers at other companies (particularly one known by two initials) were called in and challenged by very senior management to match VW results without necessitating the addition of urea to meet emissions requirements and could not figure out how to achieve it...and failed to match VW's results with their diesel compact. It takes a certain hubris to think they can get away with this in so widespread a violation.

The laws of physics and chemistry apply equally to all.

When other companys' engineering staffers couldn't duplicate what VW "claimed" it was doing, I'm pretty sure they walked away with a good idea, if not 100% accurate, of what was going on at VW.

Still, car manufacturing is a bit of a closed club, and no one wanted to be the "competitor" to bring corruption to the forefront.

VW is in a hole, but it put itself there. And, Bosch warned them against doing what they ended up doing...

Time to pay the piper...

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Pyewacket69

Still, car manufacturing is a bit of a closed club, and no one wanted to be the "competitor" to bring corruption to the forefront.

I disagree. If I was in business and figured out that a competitor was cheating, I would expose them immediately. If what you say is true, then this suggests that other auto manufacturers are also cheating.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I disagree. If I was in business and figured out that a competitor was cheating, I would expose them immediately. If what you say is true, then this suggests that other auto manufacturers are also cheating.

Of course they are all cheating somewhere, they will try to get away with what they can...I hate to say it, but it's kind of like human nature.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Of course they are all cheating somewhere, they will try to get away with what they can...I hate to say it, but it's kind of like human nature.

So, their only redeeming attribute is that they're not hypocrites. And folks wonder why I worry a bit regarding whether or not my vehicle really gets the oil and other fluids changed when I take it in for the scheduled maintenance. Really, folks on this forum gave me a real rash about my concerns some months ago.

[Pyewacket69]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I disagree. If I was in business and figured out that a competitor was cheating, I would expose them immediately. If what you say is true, then this suggests that other auto manufacturers are also cheating.

Well, my opinion is that bad news, unlike wine, never ages "well".

I don't think this is an isolated example...

A few more examples from recent events...

Toyota - Unintended acceleration.

GM - Ignition switch failure.

Takata - Air bag inflators.

In the end, our legal system is part of the problem. Due to our litigious society, we encourage cover ups, rather than encouraging admissions of guilt as soon as problems surface. GM is an outstanding example of trying to cover up a known problem, rather than admitting it as soon as it was discovered.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Pyewacket69

Well, my opinion is that bad news, unlike wine, never ages "well".

I don't think this is an isolated example...

A few more examples from recent events...

Toyota - Unintended acceleration.

GM - Ignition switch failure.

Takata - Air bag inflators.

In the end, our legal system is part of the problem. Due to our litigious society, we encourage cover ups, rather than encouraging admissions of guilt as soon as problems surface. GM is an outstanding example of trying to cover up a known problem, rather than admitting it as soon as it was discovered.

And your comment is the critical distinction which makes VW unprecedented. None of those three companies set out to plan those unfortunate results. A cover-up is certainly wrong, but VW designed a plan with intention to deceive from the outset to violate regulations of several nations before the first such vehicle was sold. That has never been reported before in the industry history to my knowledge, certainly not during my 30 years with one of the Detroit OEs. Around this town, jaws were heard dropping when the news broke.

[CE750Jockey]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

And your comment is the critical distinction which makes VW unprecedented. None of those three companies set out to plan those unfortunate results. A cover-up is certainly wrong, but VW designed a plan with intention to deceive from the outset to violate regulations of several nations before the first such vehicle was sold. That has never been reported before in the industry history to my knowledge, certainly not during my 30 years with one of the Detroit OEs. Around this town, jaws were heard dropping when the news broke.

Stick, you know the old baseball adage, "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

[RWDdrifter]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

And your comment is the critical distinction which makes VW unprecedented. None of those three companies set out to plan those unfortunate results. A cover-up is certainly wrong, but VW designed a plan with intention to deceive from the outset to violate regulations of several nations before the first such vehicle was sold. That has never been reported before in the industry history to my knowledge, certainly not during my 30 years with one of the Detroit OEs. Around this town, jaws were heard dropping when the news broke.

Maybe VW planned to deceive from the outset. I suspect that the deception wasn't so much planned as it was an ill-conceived attempt to sustain a flawed strategy. Of course, either way they are guilty and they admit it.

Given my own experience working for and with large corporations, here's a possible scenario that I think is quite plausible:

• Years ago VW decided at the highest corporate level to adopt a "clean diesel" strategy. In 2007 they began to market this strategy as their superior alternative to "hybrid". See:
  http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a2435/4237945/
• Soon all VW executives understand that this is a key strategic direction for VW, and the strategy is embraced across the business.
• Lots of development and marketing effort goes into execution of this strategy. The marketing messages stress "clean", "fuel efficient", "high torque", ...
• Between 2007 and today the emission standards got stricter (e.g., in 2009 the US adopted the stricter CA standard). Engineers at VW probably saw this problem fairly early and began to alert management. Management responds "you must fix it". Studies get done. Options get explored. None look palatable.
• Time is running out. Someone comes up with the idea to have two modes: "on road" and "on test rig". The risk of getting caught is assessed as very low.
• Someone at VW approves having the second mode. How high up the management chain? Probably very high IMO. Only they know.
• VW diesel cars ship with the illegal "on test rig" mode.
• A small study at West Virginia University stumbles upon the diesel cheat. Oops. The rest is now history.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by doccyber

I feel bad for VW owners.

Yes. And, I feel sorry for the 99.9% of the honest VW work force who will ultimately be the ones who pay the price in terms of layoffs, reduced or stagnant wages as the company declines, then maybe recovers.

Meanwhile, the top management will retire with handsome severance packages.

And the world continues to turn...

[DS_BMW]

So are they adding urea injection to the diesels? What is their fix?

[Pyewacket69]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Yes. And, I feel sorry for the 99.9% of the honest VW work force who will ultimately be the ones who pay the price in terms of layoffs, reduced or stagnant wages as the company declines, then maybe recovers.

Meanwhile, the top management will retire with handsome severance packages.

And the world continues to turn...

So very true...

As the rock band The Who lyrics state... "Meet the new boss... Same as the old boss"... (Won't get fooled again).

But, we will... Again and again. And everyone will be shocked, wondering how something like this could possibly happen.