Review Piggy Back X5m

[seb de la run]

hi guys,

i search a piggy back for my x5m.

is difficult to make a choice, because is so easy to sold power or a number, and you have price gap between the brand for the same power.

so to help someone you can find below some brand

bms : 449 € + 50cv
http://www.burgertuning.com/M3_M4_M5...nce_Tuner.html

racechip: 611$ + 75cv
http://www.rgsportshop.com/index.php...product_id=796

velos designwerks : 1995€ +97cv
http://velosdesignwerks.com/product/...software-2015/

dinan : 2999$ + 55cv
http://www.dinancars.com/product/d44...5-x5m-f86-x6m/

manhart : 4153€ + 80cv
http://www.shop.manhart-performance....onik-Stage-1-2

gpower : 4165€ + 75cv
http://www.g-power.com/artikelbeschr..._2293.php#2293

for me the best compromise power / price is velos.

but someone test their products? when i see is box, is like racechip.

[tastelid]

Depending on your local regulations and BMW shop, some things to consider:

1) Does the tuning device maker provide a warranty to supplement any shortcomings in the BMW warranty caused by installation of the device? For example: Dinan supposedly has a great vehicle warranty.

2) Related to #1. Does the device have easy removal and/or passthrough? Is it easy to disable and return to stock? If you're in for warranty work related to drivetrain, you probably don't want BMW to know about your racing parts.

3) Manufacturer reputation. I wouldn't put the fate of my $100k vehicle in the hands of a random company. A sub-$1000 product doesn't inspire confidence, either.

[seb de la run]

Originally Posted by tastelid

Depending on your local regulations and BMW shop, some things to consider:

1) Does the tuning device maker provide a warranty to supplement any shortcomings in the BMW warranty caused by installation of the device? For example: Dinan supposedly has a great vehicle warranty.

2) Related to #1. Does the device have easy removal and/or passthrough? Is it easy to disable and return to stock? If you're in for warranty work related to drivetrain, you probably don't want BMW to know about your racing parts.

3) Manufacturer reputation. I wouldn't put the fate of my $100k vehicle in the hands of a random company. A sub-$1000 product doesn't inspire confidence, either.

1: yes dinan is great tuner
2: is important to able return to stock for the break service
3:x5m is not 150 000$ like us, but 200 000€ in my country, i don t want to make experience. so i would like t have a great tuner
but, manhart / dinan / g power is great tuner...but why the price is so expansive. sometimes i aks me, is not just commercial, may be all the piggy back is the same technology, and the tuner wrote their brand , and they sell it more expansive....

someone have an experience with velos designwerks piggyback?

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by seb de la run

1: yes dinan is great tuner
2: is important to able return to stock for the break service
3:x5m is not 150 000$ like us, but 200 000€ in my country, i don t want to make experience. so i would like t have a great tuner
but, manhart / dinan / g power is great tuner...but why the price is so expansive. sometimes i aks me, is not just commercial, may be all the piggy back is the same technology, and the tuner wrote their brand , and they sell it more expansive....

someone have an experience with velos designwerks piggyback?

Velos Personal Tuner is re-branded RaceChip Ultimate. Save 50% buying RaceChip. I would love someone to correct me on this, with data and internal hardware comparison. Of course someone is going to reply, the casing is RaceChip but "we have our own hardware and programming." How convenient for their casing to be exactly as RaceChip's proprietary design. Let's open both up to see who's hardware is inside. "Programing" means using a screwdriver to turn the dials inside RaceChip doesn't justify double the cost. I do like Velos wheels.

There's a lot of guys using RaceChip in EU with good support. It's more advance (processor and parameter) compared to Burger Tuning Stage 1. Since you live in EU, might as well go with RaceChip since there isn't a certified Dinan shop near you.

http://www.rgsportshop.com/index.php...product_id=796

[seb de la run]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Velos Personal Tuner is re-branded RaceChip Ultimate. Save 50% buying RaceChip. I would love someone to correct me on this, with data and internal hardware comparison. Of course someone is going to reply, the casing is RaceChip but "we have our own hardware and programming." How convenient for their casing to be exactly as RaceChip's proprietary design. Let's open both up to see who's hardware is inside. "Programing" means using a screwdriver to turn the dials inside RaceChip doesn't justify double the cost. I do like Velos wheels.

There's a lot of guys using RaceChip in EU with good support. It's equivalent of Burger Tuning Stage 1, but made for more vehicles. Since you live in EU, might as well go with RaceChip since there isn't a certified Dinan shop near you.

http://www.rgsportshop.com/index.php...product_id=796

"Technically" a Dinan shop supposed to install Dinan tune, or the whole warranty scheme is out the window. I'm very positive that is in the fine print.

oh no!!! velos designwerks is just racechip re-branded!!!!
i don t trust on racechip...is like cheap products...

you understand why i do the thread!

so, dinan is the best value for money, if velos is just re branded racechip

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

"Technically" a Dinan shop supposed to install Dinan tune, or the whole warranty scheme is out the window. I'm very positive that is in the fine print.

False. We would prefer a Dinan shop to install units just in case something goes awry but it does not eliminate the Dinan warranty if it is done by the end user. Dinan authorized dealers simply have a better ability to troubleshoot then some random guy in their garage is all. The only negative that a self-install really has is if the unit is installed incorrectly that we would not warrant issues due to a faulty installation. We have an agreement in place to guarantee service labor at our dealers so the labor is "guaranteed" and the shops take responsibility for their mistakes where no such agreement exists with non-dealers (end users / random install shops). That said it is very hard to really screw something up on a DINANTRONICS install-- you would have to go out of your way and try to mess something up.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

False. We would prefer a Dinan shop to install units just in case something goes awry but it does not eliminate the Dinan warranty if it is done by the end user. Dinan authorized dealers simply have a better ability to troubleshoot then some random guy in their garage is all. The only negative that a self-install really has is if the unit is installed incorrectly that we would not warrant issues due to a faulty installation. We have an agreement in place to guarantee service labor at our dealers so the labor is "guaranteed" and the shops take responsibility for their mistakes where no such agreement exists with non-dealers (end users / random install shops). That said it is very hard to really screw something up on a DINANTRONICS install-- you would have to go out of your way and try to mess something up.

Appreciate the correction, so there is a disadvantage of not having a certified Dinan dealer. Cutting to the chase, OP is more concern about tune reliability in his 200,000EU X5M. In the years of Dinantronic, has there been any reports of an engine malfunction directly caused by your tune. If not, then OP has nothing to worry about.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by seb de la run

i don t trust on racechip...is like cheap products...

you understand why i do the thread!

so, dinan is the best value for money, if velos is just re branded racechip

I wouldn't say a product is bad because it's less expensive, although RaceChip isn't as good as Dinan or Burger Tuning JB4 (not available for X5M) piggies. Dinan does measure more values and channels, and what Dinan said above you can install it yourself. Since you don't have a Dinan certified BMW dealership, you should still use a regular BMW dealer to install it and keep the documentation.

If you don't have any BMW dealers nearby to install it, then do it yourself. Take photos of every step and follow the instruction. Keep those in a safe file for any warranty claims against Dinan. As long as you follow everything step by step, Dinan should honor the warranty as stated above. (keeping this thread as proof is good too)

[seb de la run]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

I wouldn't say a product is bad because it's less expensive, although RaceChip isn't as good as Dinan or Burger Tuning JB4 (not available for X5M) piggies. Dinan does measure more values and channels, and what Dinan said above you can install it yourself. Since you don't have a Dinan certified BMW dealership, you should still use a regular BMW dealer to install it and keep the documentation.

If you don't have any BMW dealers nearby to install it, then do it yourself. Take photos of every step and follow the instruction. Keep those in a safe file for any warranty claims against Dinan. As long as you follow everything step by step, Dinan should honor the warranty as stated above. (keeping this thread as proof is good too)

you re complety reason for the install kit.

today i don t know what can i buy...

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by seb de la run

you re complety reason for the install kit.

today i don t know what can i buy...

Why not just enjoy the X5M stock for awhile, then decide if you want more power with Dinan or not later? There's no other SUV out there that can touch the X5M's speed and handling out the box.

Use the money for exhaust/diffuser/etc.

[Alberta]

+1 Jnosol
I won't tune mine.

[AlexLou1222]

Didn't know racechip has one for our car and the price is good.

Anyone have used this product? Reading this tread kinda worries me.

But I know JB tunes were similar priced and users have good experience with them.

wonder why they haven't release a tune for our cars.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by AlexLou1222

Didn't know racechip has one for our car and the price is good.

Anyone have used this product? Reading this tread kinda worries me.

But I know JB tunes were similar priced and users have good experience with them.

wonder why they haven't release a tune for our cars.

JB4 won't be available for our cars anytime soon. Although we have similar engines to the M5/M6, our tranny is unique to the X5M/X6M. With such a small market, I doubt they will release it.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by AlexLou1222

Didn't know racechip has one for our car and the price is good.

Anyone have used this product? Reading this tread kinda worries me.

But I know JB tunes were similar priced and users have good experience with them.

wonder why they haven't release a tune for our cars.

Why don't you give it a shot?
It is 14 days money back guaranteed and I have them in stock.

As JNoSol mentioned, X5 X6 in all different variant are a small market for BMS, they won't worry about fulfilling our needs.

[Ehloo]

I like the 14 day guarantee. How much do you normally charge for an install

Can you PM best price

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Why don't you give it a shot?
It is 14 days money back guaranteed and I have them in stock.

As JNoSol mentioned, X5 X6 in all different variant are a small market for BMS, they won't worry about fulfilling our needs.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Ehloo

I like the 14 day guarantee. How much do you normally charge for an install

Can you PM best price

Are you going to come down to So.Cal?

[AlexLou1222]

I'm more worry about putting a wrong tune of the car. Our engines has different torque as the m5/m6 as well, don't want my engine to get messed up lol.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by AlexLou1222

I'm more worry about putting a wrong tune of the car. Our engines has different torque as the m5/m6 as well, don't want my engine to get messed up lol.

These piggyback tunes are as simple as vacuum trick to the old turbo system.
It just bumping up the boost.
If you are old enough to play around with HKS EVC or Greddy similar product, it works the same way, but instead of old car using vacuum control, all these new cars are using electronic sensory.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

These piggyback tunes are as simple as vacuum trick to the old turbo system.
It just bumping up the boost.
If you are old enough to play around with HKS EVC or Greddy similar product, it works the same way, but instead of old car using vacuum control, all these new cars are using electronic sensory.

Burger Tuning has been doing similar things to BMWs for years. No car has blown up directly correlated to upping the boost yet. A few charge pipes have shattered, but those are cheap parts to replace. A few half-shaft snapped with slick tires. Other than that, no blown up engines with stock turbos.

When upping the boost on newer BMWs, your charge pipes is likely give to before your engine would. Our engines are made to take much more power than we think. The stock X5M's block can probably handle 1,000HP+, but the transmission/half-shaft would suffer.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Burger Tuning has been doing similar things to BMWs for years. No car has blown up directly correlated to upping the boost yet. A few charge pipes have shattered, but those are cheap parts to replace. A few half-shaft snapped with slick tires. Other than that, no blown up engines with stock turbos.

When upping the boost on newer BMWs, your charge pipes is likely give to before your engine would. Our engines are made to take much more power than we think. The stock X5M's block can probably handle 1,000HP+, but the transmission/half-shaft would suffer.

I wouldn't blame the chargepipe damage to a boost upping though.
Even stock car can blow a stock chargepipe since the material used is not good.
But for N63/N63tu/S63/S63tu motor, the chargepipe is very short and uses a rubber hose.
A damaged chargepipe is known on BMW's 4 cyl and 6 cyl motor.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Velos Personal Tuner is re-branded RaceChip Ultimate. Save 50% buying RaceChip. I would love someone to correct me on this, with data and internal hardware comparison. Of course someone is going to reply, the casing is RaceChip but "we have our own hardware and programming." How convenient for their casing to be exactly as RaceChip's proprietary design. Let's open both up to see who's hardware is inside. "Programing" means using a screwdriver to turn the dials inside RaceChip doesn't justify double the cost. I do like Velos wheels.

There's a lot of guys using RaceChip in EU with good support. It's equivalent of Burger Tuning Stage 1, but made for more vehicles. Since you live in EU, might as well go with RaceChip since there isn't a certified Dinan shop near you.

http://www.rgsportshop.com/index.php...product_id=796

+1 It is indeed using Racechip module, as well as Remus Powerizer too. Racechip has very high quality connectors (better than BMS Stage1 for sure) comes in a weatherproof unit (no extra monies spending) and it is installable as a stage1 but gives you power from the stage2 (almost) so def beats any stage1 product.

Bump for a great product that I have seen used across the boards on various engines, cars and weather! As myself hit 11k miles on RC on a weak engine with 0 probs. Plus is faster than Dinan stage1

[Omar@VelosDesignwerks]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Velos Personal Tuner is re-branded RaceChip Ultimate. Save 50% buying RaceChip. I would love someone to correct me on this, with data and internal hardware comparison. Of course someone is going to reply, the casing is RaceChip but "we have our own hardware and programming." How convenient for their casing to be exactly as RaceChip's proprietary design. Let's open both up to see who's hardware is inside. "Programing" means using a screwdriver to turn the dials inside RaceChip doesn't justify double the cost. I do like Velos wheels.

There's a lot of guys using RaceChip in EU with good support. It's more advance (processor and parameter) compared to Burger Tuning Stage 1. Since you live in EU, might as well go with RaceChip since there isn't a certified Dinan shop near you.

http://www.rgsportshop.com/index.php...product_id=796

Originally Posted by JNoSol

I wouldn't say a product is bad because it's less expensive, although RaceChip isn't as good as Dinan or Burger Tuning JB4 (not available for X5M) piggies. Dinan does measure more values and channels, and what Dinan said above you can install it yourself. Since you don't have a Dinan certified BMW dealership, you should still use a regular BMW dealer to install it and keep the documentation.

If you don't have any BMW dealers nearby to install it, then do it yourself. Take photos of every step and follow the instruction. Keep those in a safe file for any warranty claims against Dinan. As long as you follow everything step by step, Dinan should honor the warranty as stated above. (keeping this thread as proof is good too)

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

+1 It is indeed using Racechip module, as well as Remus Powerizer too. Racechip has very high quality connectors (better than BMS Stage1 for sure) comes in a weatherproof unit (no extra monies spending) and it is installable as a stage1 but gives you power from the stage2 (almost) so def beats any stage1 product.

Bump for a great product that I have seen used across the boards on various engines, cars and weather! As myself hit 11k miles on RC on a weak engine with 0 probs. Plus is faster than Dinan stage1

Seems to be a little confusion in this thread. The casing uses for most European vehicles when using OE like connectors are made by a handful of people in the country. The internals and more importantly what goes onto these devices is not the same and not purchased from on another.

The Velos Personal Tuner module is NOT and has nothing to do with Race Chip. The manufacturer of our particular casing is the same as Akra and seems similar to a few others, not sure who they are using for sealing etc but it is the casing.

Lastly these are communication devices for your vehicle, not sure how the other units are setup but we seal all of our units once they are programmed for a vehicle and do have the option to adjust the mapping on the device. There is a mini USB port on the inside and the information that goes into this I can guarantee is not shared by anyone because the majority are done myself or under my supervision.

Please keep in mind when you say the "other" product may not be the best that is because it is easy to leave a basic program in one of these where is will have an impact on each car but no where close to maximizing the vehicles potential safely and there is no R&D time spent.

If anyone has any other questions feel free to ask but there are several things to consider and the casing, communication device, and most important the software (Make sure it has RPM integration so it is not simply operating as a "piggy back") on the device is the most important.