Anyone know how well iDrive works with FLAC/lossless music via USB drive?

[jcfay]

Hey all - now that I've finally got ASD coded off, I'm considering trying out lossless music in FLAC format. I've read that some folks had success with 16 and 24 (!) bit FLAC via USB formatted NTFS, but curious if there are issues, if the interface works well (as well as an iPhone/iPod), or if there are other considerations.

Obviously you can't fit as much music on a phone, etc., but I really want to see if the B&O sounds extra-awesome with FLAC. I wonder if a full-size external hard drive would work as long as it's connected via USB?

EDIT: found this thread http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...highlight=FLAC from a year ago that suggests the system can handle it. Just wondering if anything has changed or improved... Thx

[Slayerkillhate]

I listen .flac from USB flash drive and all ok, sounds good.

[tastelid]

FLAC is all I put on it and it works great. It even plays back 5.1 (Possibly downmixing, but support is nice) and high bit/sample rate files from DVD Audio. Browsing the files works great too, just make sure you tag and organize them, and maybe embed album art if you care.

Get one of these and you'll be set: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-...dp_ob_title_ce

It has the benefit of being low profile, so you won't snap it off if you reach down into the center console.

[jcfay]

Originally Posted by tastelid

FLAC is all I put on it and it works great. It even plays back 5.1 (Possibly downmixing, but support is nice) and high bit/sample rate files from DVD Audio. Browsing the files works great too, just make sure you tag and organize them, and maybe embed album art if you care.

Get one of these and you'll be set: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-...dp_ob_title_ce

It has the benefit of being low profile, so you won't snap it off if you reach down into the center console.

Thanks. After doing some more thread searching, it seems like folks have been having all sorts of issues getting drives to work, but with larger drives proving more troublesome. It's hard to figure out what works and what doesn't, and folks have resorted to all sorts of bananas stuff to try and figure out what works and what doesn't (see here - http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...highlight=flac).

Sounds like simpler, smaller SSD is better. Question - how did you tag and organize them, and add album art? Also are you using any playlists, and if so, how'd you set them up?

Thanks again - Jon

[tastelid]

I know for sure that the usb drive I linked works, as it is what I use in my own car.

As far as tagging, organizing, and album art are concerned, use software called Tag & Rename. But honestly, if your music is already organized into a sane directory structure, browsing the files directly works great and is what I do...but I am anal about organization.

I do not use playlists, sorry.

[ajob]

For common mortals it's quite an effort to set up using lossless FLAC files -- so, is it worthwhile? Could you really hear/enjoy any improvement compared to lossy file formats?

Here you may clearly hear the difference (FLAC vs. 192 Kbps .mp3) thanks to an unusual and objective comparison method:

[jcfay]

Originally Posted by ajob

For common mortals it's quite an effort to set up using lossless FLAC files -- so, is it worthwhile? Could you really hear/enjoy any improvement compared to lossy file formats?

Here you may clearly hear the difference (FLAC vs. 192 Kbps .mp3) thanks to an unusual and objective comparison method:

thanks. i've heard a similar analysis done elsewhere that did the same thing. With the B&O, I'm assuming that I could hear a difference with some music. I tend to listen very loud, and some pieces of music seem to benefit more from a lossless version (Pink Floyd's "Shine on You Crazy Diamond") than others. On the other hand, with so much of modern pop and rock these days being compressed and loudened during production, I'm not sure that I'd be able to hear much of a difference (on some recent Metallica, for instance).

I'm going to do some side by side comparisons in the car, and see how the system handles each version. Of course it's just subjective, but I'm kind of stoked to see how some of these awesome, lossless pieces of music sound in the car.

[tastelid]

Creating flac files is no harder than creating any other type of media file, if you're ripping your own CDs. There is no additional setup for playing them back in your car: the car doesn't care what it is, as long as it's in the list of supported formats.

Are you going to hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 or aac file and a lossless file? Probably not. If you're still toting around your 128kbps mp3s from 10 years ago, it's going to be insanely different.

[ajob]

A question to the more experienced:

For my music collection I would like to start downloading FLAC or ALAC lossless files, but am not sure which format is best to start with.

As a music source, I found HDtracks.com, who offers FLAC and ALAC files.

On my PC I'm using iTunes, who deals with ALAC but not FLAC files.

Now, in my car I listen to music with an iPhone, using lossy DRM-AAC files

I learned that my car can read FLAC files but not (yet?) ALAC files loaded on a USB stick.

But as iTunes can't deal with FLAC files, I should learn how to organize all these files in an another, non-iTunes environment.

To anybody having more experience, my question is:

- it's better to wait, hoping for ALAC files to be soon readable on BMWs?

- or it's easy enough to learn using another music organizer on my PC and use FLAC files now?

- or forget, as experience has shown lossless improvement being too marginal to bother (even with ASD off...)?

Thanks for insights!

[noushy]

It works amazingly well. It plays PCM up to 24/196 and it sounds amazing. Does not play DSD but still fantastic. I use a Samsung T1 and that is the only way to go. Mine is a 1tb and it holds countless albums

Noushy

[tastelid]

Originally Posted by ajob

A question to the more experienced:

For my music collection I would like to start downloading FLAC or ALAC lossless files, but am not sure which format is best to start with.

As a music source, I found HDtracks.com, who offers FLAC and ALAC files.

On my PC I'm using iTunes, who deals with ALAC but not FLAC files.

Now, in my car I listen to music with an iPhone, using lossy DRM-AAC files

I learned that my car can read FLAC files but not (yet?) ALAC files loaded on a USB stick.

But as iTunes can't deal with FLAC files, I should learn how to organize all these files in an another, non-iTunes environment.

To anybody having more experience, my question is:

- it's better to wait, hoping for ALAC files to be soon readable on BMWs?

- or it's easy enough to learn using another music organizer on my PC and use FLAC files now?

- or forget, as experience has shown lossless improvement being too marginal to bother (even with ASD off...)?

Thanks for insights!

I would guess that BMW takes the same stance that Apple takes but in reverse: they already support one lossless format, why would they bother supporting another? The project manager for the codec team at Apple told me this one time, when I asked him why there's no FLAC support on the iphone.

Unfortunately, this unfriendly position means that I have to maintain two music libraries. One for my iphone (in ALAC), and one for my computer / home stereo (which streams FLAC off my network storage) / cars. But I end up with lossless music everywhere, which is great.

noushy those Samsung USB drives are great! Probably overkill for most people's cars though, and physically much larger (until you remove that plastic anyway). I dig the low profile usb drives because they come in large enough capacities and they keep the center console clean. No wires, no big usb plug sticking out, waiting to be broken. Plus they are significantly cheaper than the T1.

As for giving up on lossless, now that storage is so cheap I think it's a pointless debate. Even if you only gain 5% (or whatever marginal difference) noticeable sound quality, you aren't constrained by the size of your usb stick, so why wouldn't you put the highest quality music on there you can get? This isn't the 90s or early 2000s when people were downloading 128k (or less) mp3s because one song took an hour to download, and your hard drive was relatively small by today's standards.

Regarding organization of your files, I will re-recommend Tag & Rename for physically organizing them and adding album art. It's pretty straightforward, and then you just copy the files to your usb stick, or add them to itunes.

[tastelid]

I've attached a physical size reference for you. Samsung T1 on the right, Samsung low profile thing on the left. No dollar for reference so you are stuck with my pasty white hand.

[jcfay]

all good points. I'm assuming that you're connecting your iPhone via USB? Obviously bluetooth streaming is lossy in itself... Having just tested out FLAC, I can say that I can, without a doubt, hear a difference. For some music it's just so obvious what is lost even in modest compression (much of my library is 320kb/s, VBR mp3, or 256 aac) - last night I tested out Floyd's Wish You Were Here, the Buena Vista Social Club, and a few other albums. At high volume as usual, and to me the differences were obvious. So I'm moving to lossless as much as possible, except for some modern music that's already so compressed post-mastering that it might not even matter...

FLAC worked great on a small USB drive. Tag & Rename worked perfectly, just keep album art around 500x500 size as I've read that iDrive can have issues with larger image sizes. T&R was super easy to use, as well, as it can search a free database to query which album you're looking for.

Since each album I'm looking at 300+MB minimum, the utility of ANY iPhone becomes limited. I think I've got the 64GB 6S now, but I've also got an old 5th gen iPod 160GB that is chock full of lossy mp3s. I don't believe Apple will (unfortunately) be moving to any significantly larger storage formats that could hold a really substantial amount of lossless music, regardless. I did Apple music, like being able to sample novel stuff, but I think I'm now hooked on lossless. But not everything is available at present, and so there's that limiting factor as well.

I'd say get an inexpensive 128GB thumb drive or SSD drive and go with FLAC for lossless, for now. That's the route I'm going. But I will say that, with the B&O, it DEFINITELY sounds better. Especially with ASD turned off. HTH

[jcfay]

Oh, and the FLAC versus ALAC battle is one that the marketplace plays a significant role in, at least that's what I'm reading. I paid 17.99 for an album I really wanted in lossless yesterday (Big Wreck's "Ghosts"), already had it in lossy, but was willing to pony up additional $$ for lossless. FLAC is "free lossless" and Apple's format is proprietary. With the launch of TIDAL, and some modest success it seems, I expect the almighty $$$ is playing a role here...

[tastelid]

If I need to play something off my phone, I just bluetooth it. But since my usb stick and phone have the same music libraries, I dont do that much. A usb drive that lives in the car is the way to go.

iphones do come in 128gb capacities now, however.

as far as I know, alac is also free (and drm free), just not open source. the choice really depends on the audience. making a streaming music store for iphones? youll choose an apple format. places like bandcamp let you choose your format when you buy, or even let you pay a flat rate and then download any and all formata you want.

now that i think about it, im not even sure you can stream flac files. have never tried.

[ajob]

Thank you, a good start and I now have my homework...

If not too OT and if the forum rules allow to share the info, which (legal!) online sources for lossless music do you consider as main choices?

Renewed thanks!

[tastelid]

To be honest, there arent a lot of good options unless you like classical or typical audiophile albums (from clapton, michael jackson, nora jones, etc). bandcamp and its competitors are good options for finding modern releases. and, while pono didnt live up to my expectations, they do have a big catalog of lossless (but not high res) music.

almost all of my music library i ripped from my own cds. figured i owed it to my favorite musicians after pirating their mp3s for so long, so i bought a TON of cds through amazon and ripped them.

i would try pono and see what you think. hdtracks is nice too but pretty limited.

[THOR48]

Originally Posted by jcfay

Hey all - now that I've finally got ASD coded off, I'm considering trying out lossless music in FLAC format. I've read that some folks had success with 16 and 24 (!) bit FLAC via USB formatted NTFS, but curious if there are issues, if the interface works well (as well as an iPhone/iPod), or if there are other considerations.

Obviously you can't fit as much music on a phone, etc., but I really want to see if the B&O sounds extra-awesome with FLAC. I wonder if a full-size external hard drive would work as long as it's connected via USB?

EDIT: found this thread http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...highlight=FLAC from a year ago that suggests the system can handle it. Just wondering if anything has changed or improved... Thx

All I play in the M3 is AIFF or FLAC. Sounds great. I think the HK system actually converts to a different format. Whatever happens it sounds good.

[jcfay]

Originally Posted by tastelid

To be honest, there arent a lot of good options unless you like classical or typical audiophile albums (from clapton, michael jackson, nora jones, etc). bandcamp and its competitors are good options for finding modern releases. and, while pono didnt live up to my expectations, they do have a big catalog of lossless (but not high res) music.

almost all of my music library i ripped from my own cds. figured i owed it to my favorite musicians after pirating their mp3s for so long, so i bought a TON of cds through amazon and ripped them.

i would try pono and see what you think. hdtracks is nice too but pretty limited.

Ditto. Stuff can be hard to find, but I've found some success with pono. Otherwise it's rip your own.

[THOR48]

Originally Posted by THOR48

All I play in the M3 is AIFF or FLAC. Sounds great. I think the HK system actually converts to a different format. Whatever happens it sounds good.

I play AIFF and FLAC on my 2016 M3 as well. But on my 2017 X5 M - AIFF is a no go. I look forward to a comment or tip - perhaps I am doing something wrong.

[tastelid]

My USB stick seems to be dying. When I start the car, I usually get a few "cannot play file" errors as it skips through the songs. Eventually it lands on one that plays. Also, I often cannot browse the files on the stick, just get a "loading" message forever. Resolvable by unplugging the usb stick and plugging it back in, but that doesn't last.

[MadMarkus]

As a "Spotify"-Guy (offline archiv on the iPhone) and in addition having Digital Radio in the car, it has been a very long time that I played music from a DVD, Stick, etc.
Do you really convert your own Music, setup the playlists and update them whenever you discover new songs / artists?
It may be that Spotify is on the lowest level of quality compare to what you are looking for, but it all happens "on the go". I listen to a nice track in a cafe, bar, radio... shazam knows the artist and Spotify downloads it while I m still with my drink.