I just became a bit sad...

[Sedan_Clan]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-34980_7...st-of-a-breed/


I mean, come on Porsche! Really?

[LAwolverine]

this is terrible news

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Already knew this. The GT3 is one car I think benefits from the PDK. Its not only the best dual clutch on the market but look at its performance. In a straight line its trapping 126.X mph. Name me another car with 475 hp that traps that high.

Look at its track times. They are besting cars with 100+ more hp. That is where the GT3 really shines. Its still the best driving machine money can buy at any price.

[KingOfJericho]

I think most are taking issue with the lack of a choice. Let the consumer decide what they want. Personally, I think it's sad.

[Meeni]

The article is a bit dense. It will not have a 3 speed autoglide, it will have PDK with manual gear changes. So you can still change your gears yourself (and it will not override you), you just have no clutch. Has he even driven a recent auto trans in the last 10 years (beside the terrible things that are shipped in econobox and US cars?)

I do prefer manual, in general, but on a car like the GT3, which is not race inspired, but race ready, it makes sense to have the best performing gearbox. And anyway, I don't feel concerned, I don't make enough to ever own a GT3, even used

[Billup]

If I could afford one, I would be more irritated. However, efficiency is key, and PDK supplies that all day long. Manual gearbox does give you a sense of freedom and connection, and even I feel I lost that going from a 6MT to DCT.

But in that sense, my car is nothing like a GT3. lol.

[Year's_End]

How is this news? This is like beating a dead horse at this point.

[P1]

Inevitable...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think most are taking issue with the lack of a choice. Let the consumer decide what they want. Personally, I think it's sad.

That is exactly the issue. Some people aren't focused solely on the numbers that some hotshot driver can extract out of a car just because it has an automatic/DCT/PCK/<enter some kind of fancy auto acronym here>. I mean it's Porsche......heralded the driver's car of driver's cars. I guess not so much anymore. Not without a 3rd pedal!

As for affording it.....


....as we chat today, I can't afford one either, but it's what I'm reaching for. There was a time that none of us could afford $60-80k M3's either, but we got there. It looks like I'll be looking at the used market when that time comes.

[KingOfJericho]

It's like bragging about how fast you can have sex. The joy is in the ride, not the outcome.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

It's like bragging about how fast you can have sex. The joy is in the ride, not the outcome.

I've been doing it wrong all these years. I only cared about the outcum

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think most are taking issue with the lack of a choice. Let the consumer decide what they want. Personally, I think it's sad.

+1

When they were going to test rides with the head engineer of Porsche he said that the PDK is always faster than the manual gearbox. The problem is, Porsche never asked customers if they CARED the car would be slightly slower, but gave them the joy of perfectly rev matching a down shift before they hit a turn. Driver involvement is what the GT3 is supposed to be. Everyone just got a little less involved.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think most are taking issue with the lack of a choice. Let the consumer decide what they want. Personally, I think it's sad.

+1

When they were going to test rides with the head engineer of Porsche he said that the PDK is always faster than the manual gearbox. The problem is, Porsche never asked customers if they CARED the car would be slightly slower, but gave them the joy of perfectly rev matching a down shift before they hit a turn. Driver involvement is what the GT3 is supposed to be. Everyone just got a little less involved.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Nkc

I've been doing it wrong all these years. I only cared about the outcum

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think most are taking issue with the lack of a choice. Let the consumer decide what they want. Personally, I think it's sad.

The "choice" is not without costs for the manufacturer. From whole sales, how many percent are manual? 5%? It is just too expensive to justify the choice, when the sales are so low (looking at base 911 and 911 Turbo sales). If it is proven that these 5% (I took out of the air) of manual sales are the reason for 25% of PDK sales, then manual might be reconsidered.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Levi

The "choice" is not without costs for the manufacturer. From whole sales, how many percent are manual? 5%? It is just too expensive to justify the choice, when the sales are so low (looking at base 911 and 911 Turbo sales). If it is proven that these 5% (I took out of the air) of manual sales are the reason for 25% of PDK sales, then manual might be reconsidered.

I'm quite sure that the take rate for manual is much higher than 5% for the 911, Cayman, and Boxster models considering it's 3-5% of total vehicle sales in the US (across all makes and models).

The technology in a manual car is significantly cheaper than PDK which is why PDK was always a pricier option ($4k on the Carrera S). If it's suddenly more expensive for them to offer the manual option, then let the consumer to pay up for it to cover the cost. The option should be there for the consumer to make the choice. Making the choice on our behalf is automotive communism lol.

[Meeni]

The point I was trying to make is not that PDK is as fun as manual. But just reconsiders what the GT3 is. It is the fastest P-car in the line.

If you want the most comfortable, the most fun, the most open-top, the most manual, Porsche does have other options (like a manual Carrera S, it is already very fast and very fun and it comes with manual). You get the choice, fun with manual, or pure performance (and today that means PDK).

Complaining it does not feature the less performance oriented gearbox because it is more fun is like complaining it is missing a flatbed because you want to transport tons of dirt. You are looking at the wrong car, get a Carrera.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Meeni

Complaining it does not feature the less performance oriented gearbox because it is more fun is like complaining it is missing a flatbed because you want to transport tons of dirt. You are looking at the wrong car, get a Carrera.

One is not analogous to the other. I get what you're trying to say, but that example just doesn't fit. People buy a Porsche (..be it an entry level Boxster or the top-of-the-line GT3RS 4.0 with ginsu blades) because it's the enthusiast's car......the driver's car.......the epitome of what a sports car should be. To suggest that looking to a GT3 for both transmissions options is unwarranted just sounds completely silly to me, and completely against the nexus of Porsche's philosophy (..at least as I've interpreted it be all of these years). Nobody buys a Porsche for any other reason but road-going orgasms. It's not for hauling dirt....hell, it can barely haul groceries and fit two babies in the back seat (..on the models with "back seats"). It's a focused automobile.

[amiotcqss]

Its still the best driving machine money can buy at any price.

[BMW269]

For "having fun" you do not need much power (BRZ is really too little in this case, nonetheless fun). The new 911 GT3 is just too perfect to get manual gearbox. That would be like the latest smartphone with B&W display. I think Porsche will offer a more hard-core version of the 911 Carrera S (GTS?) that will have manual, more power, be lighter but not as extreme as the 911 GT3. The GT3 now has PDK, and RWS, it is as fast as a 458 Italia with ~100 PS less. It would not be impossible for the next 911 GT3 to get AWD, front wheels powered by hybrid power (like the 918 Spyder). Porsche will definitely have to go that route, the 918 Spyder that looked to be the slowest on paper, appeared to be faster on the N-Ring than the P1 and the LaFerrari. The new NSX Hybrid will be so fast, I can't even imagine: AWD + AWD + Hybrid = Unexpectedly fast. Even the next GT-R is going to be hybrid, so as the next Supra, and also BMW's sportscar. But a good hybrid car is expensive to develop, Japanese have the advantage.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Meeni

The point I was trying to make is not that PDK is as fun as manual. But just reconsiders what the GT3 is. It is the fastest P-car in the line.

If you want the most comfortable, the most fun, the most open-top, the most manual, Porsche does have other options (like a manual Carrera S, it is already very fast and very fun and it comes with manual). You get the choice, fun with manual, or pure performance (and today that means PDK).

Complaining it does not feature the less performance oriented gearbox because it is more fun is like complaining it is missing a flatbed because you want to transport tons of dirt. You are looking at the wrong car, get a Carrera.

The GT3 is slower than the the turbo and turbo S models. It was the drivers car and when you take away some of that engagement, you take away some of the appeal.

Originally Posted by Levi

For "having fun" you do not need much power (BRZ is really too little in this case, nonetheless fun). The new 911 GT3 is just too perfect to get manual gearbox. That would be like the latest smartphone with B&W display. I think Porsche will offer a more hard-core version of the 911 Carrera S (GTS?) that will have manual, more power, be lighter but not as extreme as the 911 GT3. The GT3 now has PDK, and RWS, it is as fast as a 458 Italia with ~100 PS less. It would not be impossible for the next 911 GT3 to get AWD, front wheels powered by hybrid power (like the 918 Spyder). Porsche will definitely have to go that route, the 918 Spyder that looked to be the slowest on paper, appeared to be faster on the N-Ring than the P1 and the LaFerrari. The new NSX Hybrid will be so fast, I can't even imagine: AWD + AWD + Hybrid = Unexpectedly fast. Even the next GT-R is going to be hybrid, so as the next Supra, and also BMW's sportscar. But a good hybrid car is expensive to develop, Japanese have the advantage.

Actually the P1 is faster around the ring.

The GT3 is a purist automobile. It's intention was to be the most raw of the 911 line. If purists prefer a manual and the car is targeted at purists, they've made a mistake.

[tuj]

BOO! I never want a paddle-shifter car unless its a Ferrari or something that screams 'F1 technology'. To me a true sports car will always have a manual and a clutch. I want to heel-toe; its rewarding. I don't care if the semi-automatic is faster, I want the driving interaction.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The GT3 is slower than the the turbo and turbo S models. It was the drivers car and when you take away some of that engagement, you take away some of the appeal.


Actually the P1 is faster around the ring.

The GT3 is a purist automobile. It's intention was to be the most raw of the 911 line. If purists prefer a manual and the car is targeted at purists, they've made a mistake.

Any Ring time for the P1? McLaren did not communicate it, but they would do if they beat the Porsche.

The GT3 is being shifted to another category. The Cayman GT4 (should be soon revealed), will take the place as a purists car, with both PDK and manual offered.