04-04-2013, 03:14 AM | #3 |
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I have a Remus quad on my F10 with N53 engine. Really pleased with the sound and quality of the exhaust.
With all the discussion about dynoing (and how it's "impossible" to do it right on the F10 M5) it's interesting to see Remus, Akrapovic and Supersprint have dyno graphs with before and after runs that seems to be genuine. If it was "impossible" to dyno the F10 M5 and that the DME would alter the ignition etc to create bogus numbers, we should not get these dyno graphs either? |
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04-04-2013, 09:17 AM | #4 | |
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Personally, I haven't heard about the M5 being impossible to Dyno. But it sounds like someone hiding from providing their numbers, or maybe not knowing how to calibrate the dyno correctly. |
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04-04-2013, 11:18 AM | #5 |
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Coldlist on this forum has made several comments about dyno sessions on the F10 M5 and that his own M5 had some very strange behaviour on the dyno after having his ECU remapped (engine throttling up and down and the car having less HP after the tune than before).
The tuner explained that this was because of the specific requirements needed to dyno the M5 (like airspeed to the car having to match the speed on the speedo while running the car on the dyno and the bonnet having to be closed). In view of this it seems odd how others apparently have no problems getting results that match BMW numbers and that also can be repeated and show a believable power gain throughout the RPM range. Either he's been led to believe this to "explain" the issues he experienced after his software tuning or there is some truth to it. |
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04-04-2013, 11:23 AM | #6 | |
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I haven't seen the thread but I'll see if I can find it and take a read. |
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04-04-2013, 11:37 AM | #7 |
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04-04-2013, 03:26 PM | #8 | |
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04-07-2013, 11:21 PM | #9 |
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Hearing that the F10 M5 is impossible to dyno sounds, well.. very odd. Especially since reputable German companies such as Akra and others are posting dynos.
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04-08-2013, 08:03 AM | #10 |
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Yes, I have my suspicions about this also. The guy seems pretty adamant about it but I haven't seen any proof to back it up though.
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04-08-2013, 01:55 PM | #11 | |
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An SIB from BMW about F10 M5 and dynoing (warranty issue?) would help bring validity to the topic. However, I am not going to discredit CL. I defiantly will be waiting for more information. As more people dyno their cars we will be able to collectively figure this all out. I can't say I would be surprised at all (that the ECU is preventing accurate dyno measurement).. many stock M5's put on a dyno are "showing" much higher performance than BMW indicated (~600hp vs 550hp). Also if 5th gear is 1:1 and US cars cannot do a 5th gear pull due to factory speed limiter, 4th gear pulls could be the single reason for showing higher power than BMW's released figures? Again, can't discredit anyone. Keeping an open mind about this and waiting for more information to come out.. either from BMW or from members here and their results/experience. |
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04-08-2013, 01:59 PM | #12 | |
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04-08-2013, 03:16 PM | #13 |
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There was someone who wrote an article were they did 9 dyno runs with the M5. The first run gave the highest reading and the next 7 runs gave less and less top end HP. In the end there was a 50hp gap between the highest and lowest run. Then on the 9th run power was higher again and in the middle between the top and low results... This backs up CL's claim about dyno inconsistencies with the M5. But then again, why are more and more aftermarket companies providing dyno runs with comparable base line runs and seemingly consistent power gains and curves? They are dynoing with the hoods open and just a regular fan (based on some of the videos and pictures out there), and yet they get similar and consistent results.
They claimed that the car was delivered to them "by the manufacturer" for this dyno run (indicating that BMW doesn't mind dynoing your car). And I find it VERY unlikely that BMW has actively programmed a "dyno map" that the ECU looks up to give false HP readings and that this map gives HIGHER hp than under normal use. It would be the other way around if BMW did not want you to dyno the car. They would then make a map that decreases engine power and runs the engine in "safe mode". It doesn't seem likely that the high readings are down to a "dyno safe map" from BMW... |
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04-09-2013, 04:19 PM | #14 | |
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04-09-2013, 05:40 PM | #15 | |
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Which leads me to think, maybe everyone is looking at this all wrong and backwards. What if the ECU on the F10 M5 has no type of "programmed file" for dynoing. Maybe the ECU is just simply the most advanced one in an M car (and BMW car) to date.. and it is more "adaptive" than prior ECU's. Therefore, when the M5 is placed on a dyno, the ECU realizes that something isn't right, and it therefore tries to adapt to the situation (such as by throttling up and down). Logically, is BMW and M wanted the car to resist dynoing, it would make much more sense to have the car enter some sort of safe mode as you mentioned. Maybe Akra and other German tuners have a way to prevent the ECU from attempting to adapt and or perform corrections. Such as they know exactly how to dyno the car. ColdList mentioned that BMW produced a 20+ page manual on how to dyno the F10 M5 (if I remember correctly). This could further verify my theory that the ECU is not programmed to resist dynoing, but it is a simply a very advanced ECU that monitors and adapts, therefore the corrections it makes when on a dyno result in unreliable results/figures. If that's the case, it could be possible that this is a feature, and one is able to turn it on/off via coding. Or, you cannot code it on/off, but instead dyno it under certian preset conditions to prevent the ECU from making corrections. It makes more sense? What do you guys think..
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04-14-2013, 11:37 AM | #16 | |
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